UL, ETL, or other listing for custom in-house equipment

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kengustafson

Member
Location
NM
Hello All,
We are a commercial bakery in NM, and are in need of a custom piece of equipment (basically a large toaster, 30"x60", for browning), which isn't available off-the-shelf. The browner will be for in-house use only (not resold). Does equipment in the category of one-off, in-house usage need to be UL, ETL, or other NRTL tested/listed? Thanks for your response.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Any piece of equipment that an electrician wires should be listed by a third party. It is an expensive procedure. I will not hook up equipment that is not listed nor should the inspector allow it.
 

kengustafson

Member
Location
NM
Dennis, thanks for the response. In a previous life I worked for Motorola. We built all kinds of custom stuff (test fixtures, robotic equipment, etc). None received any listings. A bakery is different, with the health inspector involved and all, but thought as long as the custom broiler meets NEC (correct wire gauges, contactor/breaker ratings, etc), it should be OK. I guess if it were made to plug-in (i.e. 6-50P) no electrician would be needed :) Not trying to skirt the codes, but we are a small (but growing) shop that can't afford the cost of listing. Could a 'listed shop' make such a thing and have it self-listed?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
My understanding is that if UL does not have a category that the piece of equipment specifically fits into that just about anything with wires in it can be listed under UL508a as an ICP. it is kind of a goofy, but that is what UL told us.

In your case, I think the only part that would need to be listed is the control panel itself and any UL 508a shop could do that for you at little additional cost.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
"I will not hook up ..." Balderdash.

I daresay it is the norm in industry for the production equipment to not be listed by anyone. Indeed, there can often be a debate as to what, exactly, is the 'equipment,' as most machines / production lines consist of multiple machines linked together.

For our baker, I expect he has some manner of heating element combined with some manner of conveyor. Even if he were to use a "listed control panel," that listing does not address the safety of the operation it would control.

About all the electrician can do is 'follow code' up to his terminations, and let someone else worry about the machine design.
 

Jraef

Moderator, OTD
Staff member
Location
San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
Check with your insurance underwriter. In most industrial policies, there is some sort of wording to the effect of "if any loss is determined to be the cause of unevaluated equipment, this policy will not cover it". That's really what UL is, Underwriter's Laboratories. The whole NEC issue came about much later, and technically all it says is "NRTL" Nationally Recognized Testing Lab, of which UL is the most famous.

But as mentioned, if you go and have the control panel built by a UL listed panel shop, you are covered for probably 90% of the risk.
 

kengustafson

Member
Location
NM
Thank you all for your enlightening replies.

@petersonra: very interesting; sounds like UL508a could be subtitled "Misc./Other". Would bet that's not the only goofy aspect of UL. Thanks for the listed-shop approach.

@renosteinke: could not imagine the costs involved if industry listed all production equipment (and passing said cost onto customers). Indeed we'll use heating elements, but will manually load/unload the unit (not conveyor yet!). Concur on other great points.

@Jraef: We will review the policy today, though I'm sure you've hit the nail's head. Supporting the approach of having a listed panel shop do the work (or using an existed, listed panel) belies that angle; thank you.
 
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