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Thread: learned my lesson today

  1. #1
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    learned my lesson today

    I have installed new wiring for a new ceiling fan from an existing non grounded circuit (No EGC in the existing circuit) Inspection failed because I had extended the circuit without installing an EGC or GFCI protection. However, I had the circuit AFCI protected as required.

    So the AHJ said " If installing a new luminaire on a non grounded circuit then that part of circuit must be GFCI protected or an EGC be installed."

    Now, is a ceiling fan considered a luminaire?

    Thank you.
    Edward
    Education is a progressive discovery of our ignorance.

  2. #2
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    A fan without a light kit is not a luminaire.

    Luminaire. A complete lighting unit consisting of a light
    source such as a lamp or lamps, together with the parts
    designed to position the light source and connect it to the
    power supply. It may also include parts to protect the light
    source or the ballast or to distribute the light. A lampholder
    itself is not a luminaire.
    Rob

    Chief Moderator

    All responses based on the 2011 NEC unless otherwise noted

  3. #3
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    Does it really matter? I didn't think you could extend an ungrounded circuit for any reason unless you run a new grounding wire or perhaps use GFCI protection.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    Does it really matter? I didn't think you could extend an ungrounded circuit for any reason unless you run a new grounding wire or perhaps use GFCI protection.
    I thought the EGC or GFCI protection only applied to receptacles.
    Edward
    Education is a progressive discovery of our ignorance.

  5. #5
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    See 250.130
    "Electricity is really just organized lightning." George Carlin


    Derék

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by edward View Post
    I thought the EGC or GFCI protection only applied to receptacles.
    See 410.44 for luminaires.

    As for the ceiling fans, 250.110(1) and 250.112(C) would likely require an EGC if no light kit were installed in the fan.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    Does it really matter? I didn't think you could extend an ungrounded circuit for any reason unless you run a new grounding wire or perhaps use GFCI protection.
    Its my understanding you cannot extend an ungrounded circuit even if it is fed off of a gfci. You are only allowed to replace existing receptacles or luminares on ungrounded circuits that are gfci protected.

  8. #8
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    I believe your are correct. What always throws me is that the ungrounded receptacle replacement section says not to connect an EGC to the outlet (you label it no equipment ground). This implies to me that there could be one present and they are telling you not to use it. But I don't see anything that allows you to run a new cable and not connect the grounding conductor. So there should not be an EGC in the box. IF there is one, I think it needs to be connected to one of the places mentioned in 250.130.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by brother View Post
    Its my understanding you cannot extend an ungrounded circuit even if it is fed off of a gfci.

    That is incorrect, you can extend the circuit if you add an EGC.


    250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:

    (1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50

    (2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor

    (3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates

    (4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure

    (5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure

    FPN: See 406.3(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuit-interrupting type of receptacle

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    That is incorrect, you can extend the circuit if you add an EGC.
    250.130(C)

    Hey...that section is not in my MEC...

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