Which Inspector's Right?

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GerryB

Senior Member
I recently had to reinstall an aerial to a detached garage that was rebuilt after collapsing in a heavy winter snow. The existing was triplex (from the house). I wasn't sure about the triplex so I called the EI and he said I could put it back up and install ground rods at the garage for the panel. Now I have another one, fire damaged garage, overhead existing and not damaged. The EI came the other day and said it had to be fourplex. There are no rods installed at this panel and I told him the other EI allowed me to leave it and install rods. He said he is going to check on that. Then I called another EI friend of mine and he said If it's existing you can add the rods, if it's new you have to run fourplex, which sounds like the answer. Is that correct?
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
I recently had to reinstall an aerial to a detached garage that was rebuilt after collapsing in a heavy winter snow. The existing was triplex (from the house). I wasn't sure about the triplex so I called the EI and he said I could put it back up and install ground rods at the garage for the panel. Now I have another one, fire damaged garage, overhead existing and not damaged. The EI came the other day and said it had to be fourplex. There are no rods installed at this panel and I told him the other EI allowed me to leave it and install rods. He said he is going to check on that. Then I called another EI friend of mine and he said If it's existing you can add the rods, if it's new you have to run fourplex, which sounds like the answer. Is that correct?

Both are correct. AHJ!

IMHO if it is a repair it can remain the same (3 wire). If new it must be changed (4 wire).
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
A GES (even if rods) is needed regardless of whether it is a three or four wire feeder.

Roger
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Is this "fire damaged" garage being replaced or just repaired? That could make some difference as to whether it is considered existing.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
Is this "fire damaged" garage being replaced or just repaired? That could make some difference as to whether it is considered existing.

It is being repaired. I didn't think I would need ground rods if I went to fourplex but he did say something to the effect you need ground rods anyway. The good news is the HO wants to increase the amps out there anyway.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
It is being repaired. I didn't think I would need ground rods if I went to fourplex but he did say something to the effect you need ground rods anyway. The good news is the HO wants to increase the amps out there anyway.
See post # 9

Roger
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
I recently had to reinstall an aerial to a detached garage that was rebuilt after collapsing in a heavy winter snow. The existing was triplex (from the house). I wasn't sure about the triplex so I called the EI and he said I could put it back up and install ground rods at the garage for the panel. Now I have another one, fire damaged garage, overhead existing and not damaged. The EI came the other day and said it had to be fourplex. There are no rods installed at this panel and I told him the other EI allowed me to leave it and install rods. He said he is going to check on that. Then I called another EI friend of mine and he said If it's existing you can add the rods, if it's new you have to run fourplex, which sounds like the answer. Is that correct?

Just get in the habit of running four wires and driving two rods, At one point, Bob Nuzzi was telling us 3 wires, but now its four... he's a knuckle head....You ALWAYS need rods though, this is a simple fact.
Read Article 250.32
 
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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Be sure to read the exception in 250.32. You have to "re-establish" the ground with rods if there are more than 2 branch circuits. I couldn't tell from the OP whether this was the case. IMHO, the rods aren't going to do much (with respect to clearing a fault) if you didn't have a GEC to begin with.

250.32 Buildings or Structures Supplied by a Feeder(s)
or Branch Circuit(s).


(A) Grounding Electrode. Building(s) or structure(s) supplied
by feeder(s) or branch circuit(s) shall have a grounding
electrode or grounding electrode system installed in
accordance with Part III of Article 250. The grounding
electrode conductor(s) shall be connected in accordance
with 250.32(B) or (C). Where there is no existing grounding
electrode, the grounding electrode(s) required in 250.50
shall be installed.

Exception: A grounding electrode shall not be required
where only a single branch circuit, including a multiwire
branch circuit, supplies the building or structure and the
branch circuit includes an equipment grounding conductor
for grounding the normally non?current-carrying metal
parts of equipment.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Grounding electrodes do not "clear faults" in general. They provide a reference to ground and allow for bleeding surges from lightning and incidents resulting on POCO lines. An allowable ground rod with 25 ohms of resistance trying to clear a short circuit from a 120 volt ungrounded line will only carry about 5 amps of current - a 15 amp branch circuit breaker will not see this as a condition to trip, unless it was a GFCI breaker but that is a different issue as to why the GFCI would trip.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
Just get in the habit of running four wires and driving two rods, At one point, Bob Nuzzi was telling us 3 wires, but now its four... he's a knuckle head....You ALWAYS need rods though, this is a simple fact.
Read Article 250.32
Hey Stickboy, nice to here a little CT input. I believe Nuzzi (CT. state EI), is out on sick leave so I guess we don't have a state inspector at the moment. I managed to get that transfer switch from my first post passed by the town inspector with the help of everyone here and 230-79 and 91, and the fact that it said "suitable for service equipment" on it. I won't do that again now that you clued me into those interlock kits. So in reading an old thread about detached garages it appears I should also use a main breaker panel. Just like a new service. This will have 5 ckts to start and more later. So I figure to run #2SER from the existing 100 amp house panel, (only two lighting ckts in there), on an 80 or 90 amp breaker to a j-box, splice and up #2 alum the conduit on the house, fourplex to the garage, down the coduit, #2 alum to 100 amp MB panel, 2 rods, put the green screw in, done. I'm a little concerned with this inspector but seeing as it is an extra I can get everything straight from him before I do it. Thanks for input.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Hey Stickboy, nice to here a little CT input. I believe Nuzzi (CT. state EI), is out on sick leave so I guess we don't have a state inspector at the moment. I managed to get that transfer switch from my first post passed by the town inspector with the help of everyone here and 230-79 and 91, and the fact that it said "suitable for service equipment" on it. I won't do that again now that you clued me into those interlock kits. So in reading an old thread about detached garages it appears I should also use a main breaker panel. Just like a new service. This will have 5 ckts to start and more later. So I figure to run #2SER from the existing 100 amp house panel, (only two lighting ckts in there), on an 80 or 90 amp breaker to a j-box, splice and up #2 alum the conduit on the house, fourplex to the garage, down the coduit, #2 alum to 100 amp MB panel, 2 rods, put the green screw in, done. I'm a little concerned with this inspector but seeing as it is an extra I can get everything straight from him before I do it. Thanks for input.

Spend some time reading through article 225, it will save you some headaches....
 
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