I am curious how many states and local AHJ's inspect farm?

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maloo

Member
Location
Marion, Iowa
Am I the only one who believes this is a bad idea?

Effective July 1, 2012, inspectors under the direction and control of the Department shall not conduct an inspection of a ?Farm Facility,? except upon the voluntary request of the farm owner or the farm owner?s desire.

Thanks to our fearless leader (Gov. Brandstad) bowing to political pressure

?We?ve had no real (electrical) fires?.in terms of public safety, they need to be focusing on homes and businesses?farmers have done these things for years,? Branstad said.


Branstad says farmers have safely :lol: inspected their own barns and grain bins for years.
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrical,HVAC, Technical Trainer
Am I the only one who believes this is a bad idea?

Effective July 1, 2012, inspectors under the direction and control of the Department shall not conduct an inspection of a ?Farm Facility,? except upon the voluntary request of the farm owner or the farm owner?s desire.

Thanks to our fearless leader (Gov. Brandstad) bowing to political pressure

?We?ve had no real (electrical) fires?.in terms of public safety, they need to be focusing on homes and businesses?farmers have done these things for years,? Branstad said.


Branstad says farmers have safely :lol: inspected their own barns and grain bins for years.


Laughfable at best.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
As I understand it, it's not just the gov'ner involved. It's also the state Fire Marshal (with his own adenga) who has his fingers in the pot.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If the building is a barn then the inspection department does not require a permit in Chapel Hill. Odd because my neighbor built a building and he called it a barn but it is clearly not a barn, IMO. I wired it with a 200 amp service and the inspector called it in without looking at it as no permit was required.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Am I the only one who believes this is a bad idea?

Effective July 1, 2012, inspectors under the direction and control of the Department shall not conduct an inspection of a ?Farm Facility,? except upon the voluntary request of the farm owner or the farm owner?s desire.

Thanks to our fearless leader (Gov. Brandstad) bowing to political pressure

?We?ve had no real (electrical) fires?.in terms of public safety, they need to be focusing on homes and businesses?farmers have done these things for years,? Branstad said.


Branstad says farmers have safely :lol: inspected their own barns and grain bins for years.

Most of what I have seen on farms is electrocution hazards more than fire hazards.

I'm sure you probably see a lot of the same types of installations that we commonly see here in NE. Fires may happen, usually there is no loss of life, except maybe for livestock, but electrocution hazards don't give you any warning or time to escape, therefore I'm sure there are more electrocution casualties than fire casualties. Fire casualties is typically higher count in places where people sleep and are not aware of the fire until it is too late so that is primarily our homes, hotels, and other similar places.

Bowing to political pressure - is understandable in a state where farming is the largest or one of the largest industries in the state. We have had same thing here in NE for years, agricultural installations are exempt from State electrical act - other than by owners request for inspectios. We have a POCO in the area that for many years now has requested inspections for services over 250 volts to ground. Lots of farms are seeing 277/480 services more and more. They can not force this on the contractor though as the contractor is not obligated by law to file a permit for ag installations. So they make the owner request inspection otherwise they will refuse to energize the service. Many owners don't even realize they filed a permit - the POCO puts it in with all the other paperwork they have for starting up a new service, rate contracts, etc.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
NE made a very half hearted attempt to include farms this year. Amazing that a single keyless fixture install in a commercial building requires a permit and inspection but not the 800 amp 480v $70000 electrical install does not.

I assume it did not happen, never heard any official word though.

Although I think may not be a bad idea to include these installations, it would definately put a big strain on the inspectors, and I think there is no way they could do it without hiring at least half dozen more inspectors. Biggest problem will be catching the guys that are not properly licensed that still do electrical work on farms, unless they only limit it to new services then POCO will be able to help by refusing new services without permit. I could easily see it at least starting out with being for new services only.
 

norcal

Senior Member
It used to be in the County I reside in (Butte), that to construct a AG structure all one needed was to pay a $75 permit fee & that was it, when County Counsel brought the issue before the Board of Supervisors that did not comply w/ CA law, they changed it, prior to that if wiring a AG pump, the only inspection was PG&E's (PoCo) now if they pull the meter it has to be inspected before they will reset it.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
It used to be in the County I reside in (Butte), that to construct a AG structure all one needed was to pay a $75 permit fee & that was it, when County Counsel brought the issue before the Board of Supervisors that did not comply w/ CA law, they changed it, prior to that if wiring a AG pump, the only inspection was PG&E's (PoCo) now if they pull the meter it has to be inspected before they will reset it.

I sure hope the inspection because of pulling the meter depends on the reason the meter was pulled. Add to that - larger services with CT metering - pulling the meter does not mean the same thing as for smaller services where pulling meter essentially disconnects the service, because of this the words "pulling the meter" really need defining or use of other words would be better.

There is pulling meter to disconnect a non paying customer or because a tenant has left the occupancy for good. Is it intended to inspect these in these circumstances when no changes to wiring are anticipated?

Now pulling a meter because a contractor (or owner) wants to change some equipment and not do it live - makes perfect sense to have an inspection.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
If the building is a barn then the inspection department does not require a permit in Chapel Hill. Odd because my neighbor built a building and he called it a barn but it is clearly not a barn, IMO. I wired it with a 200 amp service and the inspector called it in without looking at it as no permit was required.

Dennis

I think that the building does not have to be inspected but the electrical and plumbing does.

I have built two barns here without permit but the electrical got inspected.
 

shockin

Senior Member
As I understand it, it's not just the gov'ner involved. It's also the state Fire Marshal (with his own adenga) who has his fingers in the pot.

I don't belive you are correct. This is a decision that the Gov. made due to a lobbing group (Iowa Farm Bureau)

As a result of this the State will lose revenue and likely need to layoff some inspectors. That budget was the Fire Marshalls budget. When have you ever heard of a department cutting their own budget? I'm blaming the Gov on this one.
 

Wilg

Member
Location
VA
Our locality is a rural-farming community for the most part. Agricultural bldgs need a permit but no inspections unless requested by the poco, which rarely asks for one. We have a very large territory to cover and many farms. Full inspections would require multiple inspectors to be hired. Not saying it's right or wrong but that's how "we" do it. For what it's worth we have very few reported safety issues on our farms. We are very careful to make sure AG bldgs are actually AG bldgs on working farms, not just someone trying to skip the inspection process. I do think ALL services should be inspected....but my opinion is just that...my opinion.:huh:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I don't belive you are correct. This is a decision that the Gov. made due to a lobbing group (Iowa Farm Bureau)

As a result of this the State will lose revenue and likely need to layoff some inspectors. That budget was the Fire Marshalls budget. When have you ever heard of a department cutting their own budget? I'm blaming the Gov on this one.

The Fire marshals office should have safety as their main concern, that is the reason they exist in the first place, yes it gets complicated when you throw budget issues into how they operate, but budget is not the reason they even exist.

I can't speak for other states but in NE the budget of the State electrical division does not come from taxpayer dollars, it comes from the fees the division collects for their operations. They are however strictly controlled on their spending of their funds by the state treasurer, and or other state offices, but none of what they spend comes from the general tax funds. If they were to take on inspecting Ag installations the cost of doing so would come from the increased number of permits issued for those projects, if it is not enough then likely the cost for issuing permits and or other fees may require examination and adjustments.

As far as Governor's position - that is purely political. Governer needs to make those kind of decisions based on what will be in the best interest of the majority of the people. If he fails to make the majority happy he doesn't get re-elected. In a state like Iowa, Agriculture is a very big industry, possibly the largest group of people in the state will stand behind any legislation that is favored by AG producers. The producers may not be the largest population but there are many other industries that directly depend on the success of the Ag producers in a state with this much agriculture. If the farmers are broke, these industries eventually feel the pain also.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Kwire

You are probably right. Too often people look at the political side first

Thanks
It is just a reality of life. How many electricians and/or electrical safety related professionals in Iowa as compared to the total population? If general population is not effected so much by a law, nobody cares and lawmakers respond to who makes the most sense to them, does the better job of lobbying, as well as economic impact that will be seen by a law. If electrical safety advocates want this law to go the way they want it to then their job is to create public awareness of what they want and why it is a good idea - otherwise nobody cares. That is how it is. Same for any political agenda, when it starts effecting peoples pocket books is when it gets more attention, whether the proposed legislation is good or bad. The general public doesn't care about building codes, or electrical codes and inspections, until something bad happens and they find out if somebody would have followed this or that industry standard then the accident may have never happened, but by then it is too late and all they can do is try to take people to court for monetary reasons - even though money will never bring back a lost loved one.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
It is just a reality of life. How many electricians and/or electrical safety related professionals in Iowa as compared to the total population? If general population is not effected so much by a law, nobody cares and lawmakers respond to who makes the most sense to them, does the better job of lobbying, as well as economic impact that will be seen by a law. If electrical safety advocates want this law to go the way they want it to then their job is to create public awareness of what they want and why it is a good idea - otherwise nobody cares. That is how it is. Same for any political agenda, when it starts effecting peoples pocket books is when it gets more attention, whether the proposed legislation is good or bad. The general public doesn't care about building codes, or electrical codes and inspections, until something bad happens and they find out if somebody would have followed this or that industry standard then the accident may have never happened, but by then it is too late and all they can do is try to take people to court for monetary reasons - even though money will never bring back a lost loved one.

While that is true, the idea is to make the company, that has to pay for that lose, never want to have to pay for another one.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
While that is true, the idea is to make the company, that has to pay for that lose, never want to have to pay for another one.

We all know that, but anybody that has needlessly lost a loved one doesn't really care how much money they may be awarded it can never replace their loved one. It does not matter if they were electrocuted, hit by a drunk driver, got very sick and died from something in the food they ate, dead is still dead.

When some laws are made, like this requirement for inspection, not too many really know the real dangers they may be asking for, all that is seen by those people is more regulation, cost, and other headaches they don't want to deal with, so it is easy to dismiss the dangers if you really don't know what they are. The electrical professionals that do know and care are not that big of a percentage of the population, so it takes a lot of effort to convince others that are not knowledgeable what the dangers are. The general public is more concerned about things that they do understand - at least a little more. Things like what happens if they build a nuclear power plant and there is a nuclear related accident someday? They may not have all the hazards down to every detail but do realize the possible severity of the dangers. Electrical wiring is everywhere and people don't always realize how close they may have come to death during their life. Just one small bit of lower resistance in any shock incident may be all that it takes to be "just a shock", severe injury, or death.
 
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