Electrician vs. Engineer

Status
Not open for further replies.

sameguy

Senior Member
Location
New York
Occupation
Master Elec./JW retired
What I find is after you show the EE where his print is wrong, missed code item, looked good on paper but no way to do it, adding input to how to fix it, they come around. Many times they say, you know what we are looking for send me the updates, call me first to let me know then we will change the print!
We will do this to a point to help us, but not to a design/build level!
When we do get an EE, very few, who is too big for his pants we drop RFI bombs and leave problems to grow into xtras.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
What I find is after you show the EE where his print is wrong, missed code item, looked good on paper but no way to do it, adding input to how to fix it, they come around. Many times they say, you know what we are looking for send me the updates, call me first to let me know then we will change the print!
We will do this to a point to help us, but not to a design/build level!
When we do get an EE, very few, who is too big for his pants we drop RFI bombs and leave problems to grow into xtras.

This is what I have been trying to get as with my posts. If you can partner with the EE such that you can ecome a resourse for them it may also lead to more business for you. The EE wil also consider you as covering their back side. The EE should be well verse in the engineering a design aspect which you may not be well versed at but they will rely on you yo assure that the details are covered to comply with the code requirements as well as what may be more practical from your experience.
Meeting with the EE over lunch and discussing a project can be very beneficial to both of you.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
What I find is after you show the EE where his print is wrong, missed code item, looked good on paper but no way to do it, adding input to how to fix it, they come around.

To be able to switch sides in a discussion without prejudice or ego involvement upon receipt of incontrovertible evidence that one's position is incorrect is one of the most valuable skills an engineer can possess. It is far better to be correct than to be "right".
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
To be able to switch sides in a discussion without prejudice or ego involvement upon receipt of incontrovertible evidence that one's position is incorrect is one of the most valuable skills an engineer can possess. It is far better to be correct than to be "right".

The engineer's print is never wrong. It could be however, that it was prepared from incorrect data supplied by the electrician. :)
 

kingpb

Senior Member
Location
SE USA as far as you can go
Occupation
Engineer, Registered
I am an engineer, and I'm good at what I do because:

1. I was an electrician for 11 years before I got my degree, so I know how things go together.
2. I take pride in what I do, and am still willing to learn from others, and not afraid to listen to others sound ideas.
3. The NEC is not a cookbook for design, you have to still think.

With that said, I think there are a lot of really bad and mediocre engineers out there. Taking a test to get a PE does not mean you know how to design something. It just means you can be sued.

There are also a lot of EC's out there that do shoddy work and have no business being in business.

EE or EC it's just a title. Knowledge, experience, trust, respect for others, and knowing your limitations is what gets the job done right regardless of what you call yourself.
 

jumper

Senior Member
I am an engineer, and I'm good at what I do because:

1. I was an electrician for 11 years before I got my degree, so I know how things go together.
2. I take pride in what I do, and am still willing to learn from others, and not afraid to listen to others sound ideas.
3. The NEC is not a cookbook for design, you have to still think.

With that said, I think there are a lot of really bad and mediocre engineers out there. Taking a test to get a PE does not mean you know how to design something. It just means you can be sued.

There are also a lot of EC's out there that do shoddy work and have no business being in business.

EE or EC it's just a title. Knowledge, experience, trust, respect for others, and knowing your limitations is what gets the job done right regardless of what you call yourself.

Well said.:thumbsup:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am an engineer, and I'm good at what I do because:

1. I was an electrician for 11 years before I got my degree, so I know how things go together.
2. I take pride in what I do, and am still willing to learn from others, and not afraid to listen to others sound ideas.
3. The NEC is not a cookbook for design, you have to still think.

With that said, I think there are a lot of really bad and mediocre engineers out there. Taking a test to get a PE does not mean you know how to design something. It just means you can be sued.

There are also a lot of EC's out there that do shoddy work and have no business being in business.

EE or EC it's just a title. Knowledge, experience, trust, respect for others, and knowing your limitations is what gets the job done right regardless of what you call yourself.

Well said.:thumbsup:

Hey, I was going to say well said.

But I never really thought of one of his points, - acquiring a license, accreditation, or whatever documentation proves you are qualified to do something also gives others the right to blame you for anything and everything that can go wrong.:happyyes:
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
The engineer's print is never wrong. It could be however, that it was prepared from incorrect data supplied by the electrician. :)

.....or customer. I used to deal with the engineering firm that designed a majority of a big box home improvement stores. (several of my control circuits made it into their prints) They said they were given very little to go on when it came to designing the circuits for equipment such as the panel saws and radial arm saws, so they had to guess.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
.....or customer. I used to deal with the engineering firm that designed a majority of a big box home improvement stores. (several of my control circuits made it into their prints) They said they were given very little to go on when it came to designing the circuits for equipment such as the panel saws and radial arm saws, so they had to guess.

hillbilly1, to my point this is a good example as to how it should work if you can get it to work toward your advantage, such as being the prefered electrician.
 

spark master

Senior Member
Location
cyberspace
I do ALOT of HVAC work. Changing a 208v RTU unit to 460v, requires some serious thought. in fact, too much thought. you must be thoughly familar with the RTU you're working with.

you need to change:
The indoor fan motor (blower motor) should have a diagram on the motor plate
The compressor if even possible to change voltages.
the control voltage transformer tap.
the combustion vent motor.
The disconnect fuses to 1/2 what they were.
all the contactors and relays in the unit.
there is also a compressor lockout sensor with a current transformer looking for spec amperage going to the compressor. That must be changed.

I say the time and labor to deal with this, you might as well rip the unit off the roof, and start over.
 

Bjenks

Senior Member
Location
East Coast of FL
And when that was first mentioned his credibility as an engineer sank pretty fast. If he is not an electrical engineer why is he even involved in elecrical decisions? If he is a mechanical engineer his job should stop at designing mechanical system and let EE decide electrical designs.

As an Electrical PE I ask myself that all the time. I see lots of ME feeling qualified to do Electrical but not the other way around. The problem is that in Florida although the test for PE is disciple based, once a PE you can do any engineering you feel you are qualified to do. To me this is wrong, but to FBPE it gives respect to a PE to make his own decisions. Same problem with Architects being able to do anything up to 400A, they will hire an engineer to do a buildings service and distribution. However, they will do the tenant build out and it is amazing how messed up they can do a 2000 sq ft space. I think they just rely on the EC to make it all right which they do.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
As an Electrical PE I ask myself that all the time. I see lots of ME feeling qualified to do Electrical but not the other way around. The problem is that in Florida although the test for PE is disciple based, once a PE you can do any engineering you feel you are qualified to do. To me this is wrong, but to FBPE it gives respect to a PE to make his own decisions. Same problem with Architects being able to do anything up to 400A, they will hire an engineer to do a buildings service and distribution. However, they will do the tenant build out and it is amazing how messed up they can do a 2000 sq ft space. I think they just rely on the EC to make it all right which they do.

I think we have similar thoughts. You as an electrical PE should have more knowledge about some things than I have. But someone that is a PE but not "electrical" - who knows just how much electrical they really know.

Kind of like someone with the title "Doctor". A dentist may have that title, and may have more knowledge of all things medical, than most people, but doesn't mean he is qualified to perform open heart surgery. An operating room nurse that doesn't have the title may know more about the procedure than the dentist simply because they are always there for the procedure - doesn't qualify them either but maybe gives them higher rank - for lack of a better term - in some unusual situation.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
Yes, I have been surprised at how little practical knowledge some EEs have and must use diplomacy when working with them. Sometime you have to work it to make then look as if they are heroes.

Then the same is true with electricians and technicians.

I have found my self talking to electricians that know the code inside and out but know very little about why. They know the electrical code by heart. But they don?t have a clue as how the system works together. One of the hardest things that I have found is those who ask why my breaking didn't trip because of an arcing fault or a 15a never tripped with a 20a load. You want to help the electrictian understand so that he/she can be successful at their job also.

But that's the way it is and I believe that it will never change. But the fact remains the most important thing is not to put someone down but to work together for success in the end.
 

bbaumer

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I am a registered professional engineer and a licensed master electrician.

Yes.

I have seen some stupid things from some engineers.

I have also seen a lot of stupid things done by electricians that should know better and some supposed electricians.

Hate to admit it but I have done some stupid things myself.

It is not really an Electrician vs. Engineer thing and threads like this don't help either side make each other better.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I am a registered professional engineer and a licensed master electrician.

Yes.

I have seen some stupid things from some engineers.

I have also seen a lot of stupid things done by electricians that should know better and some supposed electricians.

Hate to admit it but I have done some stupid things myself.

It is not really an Electrician vs. Engineer thing and threads like this don't help either side make each other better.

I agree with you.

I realize all people make mistakes.

I dislike people that think they incapable of being wrong.

I dislike people that hide behind a title, the title is nothing more than an achievement, they still can make mistakes.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I agree with you.

I realize all people make mistakes.

I dislike people that think they incapable of being wrong.

I dislike people that hide behind a title, the title is nothing more than an achievement, they still can make mistakes.

not if they are engineers. Engineers are near godlike.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
I agree with you.

I realize all people make mistakes.

I dislike people that think they incapable of being wrong.

I dislike people that hide behind a title, the title is nothing more than an achievement, they still can make mistakes.
I agree with all the above, and neither electricians or engineers are immune to any of it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top