Behind schedule job

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GerryB

Senior Member
We have all had jobs that seem to go on forever, but I am a little worried about this one I am supposed to do. It's a 5000sq ft. home,partially finished basement. Best case scenario was start the rought mid to late August. Well now it's ready. December in the North East. We are supposed to have the month of Dec to rough(that's all trades). Contractor hopes to be insulating and sheet rocking in Jan. So here is my question for you guys who maybe have done a lot of jobs like this. The job is supposed to be done by May 1 to avoid penalties. If he is insulated and rocked by the end of Jan, is 3 months enough time? It seems like enough time is never enough time. The garage is not framed yet, and of course in a house this size there lots of specialty items. Thoughts?
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
A month to rough in 5000 sq ft ? Electrican, tin knockers, plumbers, the three trades are going

to be bumping elbows all month. P P P on the GC's part does not make an emergency on the

electricans end. Will the GC offer an incentive to get the job done on time or early ?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
A month is plenty of time for roughin from all trades with good planning, but sounds like this GC is not good at planning, so be ready to work your tail off in March and April
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
You want to make schedule, you need to set up properly. This means the GC is going to have to alter his 'routine' a bit, even do some 'temporary' stuff that he'll need to take apart later. Hold his feet to the fire; these 'extras' will let everyone work faster.

#1 is to have power on site and a toilet. You can't afford the time it takes to drive to a gas station when nature calls.

Having a real, functioning toilet is a priority, even if that means a cheap toilet hooked up in an unfinished bathroom. Along the same lines, trash has to be MANAGED. That means a well-placed dumpster, not random piles that you're always moving about. Most jobs could use a guy just for housekeeping.

Close behind is the need to close the place in, get it out of the weather. Cover the windows and doors. String some temp lighting. Set up heaters. Forget the 'tough guy' crap; everyone works better without jackets and cold hands.

Access is critical. This means being able to drive INTO the garage and having at least temporary stairs. You lose time when you have to climb or fuss with ladders. This means the GC might have to do some temporary grading. There's nothing like slogging through soft mud all day to slow things down.

Site security counts; you need to be able to lock the place up, even if the lock is a hasp and a sheet of plywood, rather than a real door. You don't want to come in and find yesterday's wire missing. Along these lines, MANAGE material deliveries and storage. No one is helped when you spend three months stumbling over stacks of drywall in every room.

Finally, set up a serious work station, where you can sort and store your parts and tools. Some stuff you'll have to order, so you'll need a place to store it until you need it. This might mean renting a trailer - so make sure there's a good path between the trailer and the house.

Don't expect any of this to be an 'easy sell.' I had a job similar to yours, where the GC scoffed .... until he came to check on me as I worked in the lower level. I had closed off the section, had a heater going, and was cranking out work with a cheerful helper. Upstairs, everyone was slogging through their tasks, slow and unhappy and wrapped up like the Michelin man. Seeing the difference first hand, the GC made some changes upstairs; suddenly it was worth it to board up the two openings where the 'special order' windows had not yet arrived.

For your part, plan on having 3 men and two vehicles on the job. Two guys to work, one to 'support' and make parts runs. One of the vehicles can even be a small car - it can carry everything but pipe. Make sure your guys have cell phones and can communicate. The "runner" can also be quite useful in documenting the job. Lots of notes, sketches, and pictures of everything!
 

PEDRO ESCOVILLA

Senior Member
Location
south texas
sounds doable, unless theres something really strange about this house. i've done a ton of work in the ne. winter conditions are a factor as stated above. get it warm and lit. i'm not going to repeat whats already been said, but if you havent documented the schedule of this job to date, and were supposed to start it along time ago, i'd get in down now, and daily from here out. just to cover you a$$. daily progress, holdups, trades not coordinated (gc's responsibilty but push the issue) work a few weekends when no one else is there so you have free run of the place,. once you can and yea, you'l be allright. diito on security, seems like every crook in the universe is looking to steal copper these days! depends on where you are, i've had inspectors thaT wouldn't permit me to pull romex unless the work area was above (or at least) 40 degrees. the jacket will split,
 
Last edited:

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
sounds doable, unless theres something really strange about this house. i've done a ton of work in the ne. winter conditions are a factor as stated above. get it warm and lit. i'm not going to repeat whats already been said, but if you havent documented the schedule of this job to date, and were supposed to start it along time ago, i'd get in down now, and daily from here out. just to cover you a$$. daily progress, holdups, trades not coordinated (gc's responsibilty but push the issue) work a few weekends when no one else is there so you have free run of the place,. once you can and yea, you'l be allright. diito on security, seems like every crook in the universe is looking to steal copper these days! depends on where you are, i've had inspectors thaT wouldn't permit me to pull romex unless the work area was above (or at least) 40 degrees. the jacket will split,
Kind of hard to keep up with the schedule when the framers don't have their work completed yet, I think OP's concern goes beyond what he is capable of controlling.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Schedules are what you make when you are trying to please someone.

Had a guy on the 21st tell me that he want's to open on the 1st. Plumber not hardly started, EC not complete in walls, so no drywall means no t-bar yet, etc. I start doing the finger counting and tell him that even if no problems it couldn't possibly take less than 15-20 days to do what needs to be done, and there's nothing I can do to help him. As of today he has to cancel all of the partys that he had scheduled for tomorrow.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
You want to make schedule, you need to set up properly. This means the GC is going to have to alter his 'routine' a bit, even do some 'temporary' stuff that he'll need to take apart later. Hold his feet to the fire; these 'extras' will let everyone work faster.

#1 is to have power on site and a toilet. You can't afford the time it takes to drive to a gas station when nature calls.

Having a real, functioning toilet is a priority, even if that means a cheap toilet hooked up in an unfinished bathroom. Along the same lines, trash has to be MANAGED. That means a well-placed dumpster, not random piles that you're always moving about. Most jobs could use a guy just for housekeeping.

Close behind is the need to close the place in, get it out of the weather. Cover the windows and doors. String some temp lighting. Set up heaters. Forget the 'tough guy' crap; everyone works better without jackets and cold hands.

Access is critical. This means being able to drive INTO the garage and having at least temporary stairs. You lose time when you have to climb or fuss with ladders. This means the GC might have to do some temporary grading. There's nothing like slogging through soft mud all day to slow things down.

Site security counts; you need to be able to lock the place up, even if the lock is a hasp and a sheet of plywood, rather than a real door. You don't want to come in and find yesterday's wire missing. Along these lines, MANAGE material deliveries and storage. No one is helped when you spend three months stumbling over stacks of drywall in every room.

Finally, set up a serious work station, where you can sort and store your parts and tools. Some stuff you'll have to order, so you'll need a place to store it until you need it. This might mean renting a trailer - so make sure there's a good path between the trailer and the house.

Don't expect any of this to be an 'easy sell.' I had a job similar to yours, where the GC scoffed .... until he came to check on me as I worked in the lower level. I had closed off the section, had a heater going, and was cranking out work with a cheerful helper. Upstairs, everyone was slogging through their tasks, slow and unhappy and wrapped up like the Michelin man. Seeing the difference first hand, the GC made some changes upstairs; suddenly it was worth it to board up the two openings where the 'special order' windows had not yet arrived.

For your part, plan on having 3 men and two vehicles on the job. Two guys to work, one to 'support' and make parts runs. One of the vehicles can even be a small car - it can carry everything but pipe. Make sure your guys have cell phones and can communicate. The "runner" can also be quite useful in documenting the job. Lots of notes, sketches, and pictures of everything!


Well those are good points. There is a large port-o-let with a spray can, the house is wrapped, windows soon. He did talk about getting some heat going, he'll need it anyway for spray foam insulation on the exterior walls. He has cameras and is well aware of security. It's a well to do town but a nearby job has been hit twice. Which as an aside how is the EC covered in a case like that? Insurance might cover the materiel but what about labor to do it again? The gc is a good guy, the only thing is he never did a job this big.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
sounds doable, unless theres something really strange about this house. i've done a ton of work in the ne. winter conditions are a factor as stated above. get it warm and lit. i'm not going to repeat whats already been said, but if you havent documented the schedule of this job to date, and were supposed to start it along time ago, i'd get in down now, and daily from here out. just to cover you a$$. daily progress, holdups, trades not coordinated (gc's responsibilty but push the issue) work a few weekends when no one else is there so you have free run of the place,. once you can and yea, you'l be allright. diito on security, seems like every crook in the universe is looking to steal copper these days! depends on where you are, i've had inspectors thaT wouldn't permit me to pull romex unless the work area was above (or at least) 40 degrees. the jacket will split,

Does it get below 40 in South Texas?:happyno: I will get a schedule documented like you suggest, cause it has changed numerous times. I don't really care unless they say we're holding up the job. And on big projects like this I will work weekends doing the easier stuff and checking everything.
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
i've had inspectors thaT wouldn't permit me to pull romex unless the work area was above (or at least) 40 degrees. the jacket will split,
Up here in the north east we use winter proof Romex:roll: so we can work during the months it is below 40 degrees,You can probably get some shipped down to Texas....:lol:
 
Which as an aside how is the EC covered in a case like that? Insurance might cover the materiel but what about labor to do it again?

Usually, the GC or property owner owns the material as it's installed. If you have to reinstall because something was stolen, charge for that and let the insurance company and the GC figure it out. You do the work, you should be paid for it, no matter how many times you have to (re)do it.

That said, make sure that everyone knows that site security isn't your job*, and that reinstalling will be charged (and tell them how you'll figure out that cost). There shouldn't be any surprises if this happens, other than the theft itself.

*locking up shouldn't even be your responsibility unless they accept that you do it every time. That is, they don't get to argue whether the door was locked or not if there's a theft.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
Usually, the GC or property owner owns the material as it's installed. If you have to reinstall because something was stolen, charge for that and let the insurance company and the GC figure it out. You do the work, you should be paid for it, no matter how many times you have to (re)do it.

That said, make sure that everyone knows that site security isn't your job*, and that reinstalling will be charged (and tell them how you'll figure out that cost). There shouldn't be any surprises if this happens, other than the theft itself.

*locking up shouldn't even be your responsibility unless they accept that you do it every time. That is, they don't get to argue whether the door was locked or not if there's a theft.

Thanks for the tip, it'll be in the contract. Now that the plumbers use plastic we're the main target.
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
You want to make schedule, you need to set up properly. This means the GC is going to have to alter his 'routine' a bit, even do some 'temporary' stuff that he'll need to take apart later. Hold his feet to the fire; these 'extras' will let everyone work faster.

#1 is to have power on site and a toilet. You can't afford the time it takes to drive to a gas station when nature calls.

Having a real, functioning toilet is a priority, even if that means a cheap toilet hooked up in an unfinished bathroom. Along the same lines, trash has to be MANAGED. That means a well-placed dumpster, not random piles that you're always moving about. Most jobs could use a guy just for housekeeping.

Close behind is the need to close the place in, get it out of the weather. Cover the windows and doors. String some temp lighting. Set up heaters. Forget the 'tough guy' crap; everyone works better without jackets and cold hands.

Access is critical. This means being able to drive INTO the garage and having at least temporary stairs. You lose time when you have to climb or fuss with ladders. This means the GC might have to do some temporary grading. There's nothing like slogging through soft mud all day to slow things down.

Site security counts; you need to be able to lock the place up, even if the lock is a hasp and a sheet of plywood, rather than a real door. You don't want to come in and find yesterday's wire missing. Along these lines, MANAGE material deliveries and storage. No one is helped when you spend three months stumbling over stacks of drywall in every room.

Finally, set up a serious work station, where you can sort and store your parts and tools. Some stuff you'll have to order, so you'll need a place to store it until you need it. This might mean renting a trailer - so make sure there's a good path between the trailer and the house.

Don't expect any of this to be an 'easy sell.' I had a job similar to yours, where the GC scoffed .... until he came to check on me as I worked in the lower level. I had closed off the section, had a heater going, and was cranking out work with a cheerful helper. Upstairs, everyone was slogging through their tasks, slow and unhappy and wrapped up like the Michelin man. Seeing the difference first hand, the GC made some changes upstairs; suddenly it was worth it to board up the two openings where the 'special order' windows had not yet arrived.

For your part, plan on having 3 men and two vehicles on the job. Two guys to work, one to 'support' and make parts runs. One of the vehicles can even be a small car - it can carry everything but pipe. Make sure your guys have cell phones and can communicate. The "runner" can also be quite useful in documenting the job. Lots of notes, sketches, and pictures of everything!

John, I believe you forgot the tea and crumpets.

In the reality I work in, we are currently boxing under blue skies, and wait to pull wire until the fellas above us put a floor in to prevent them from dropping walls on our heads.

But keep going, I'm sure the 20 item demand list for the GC will be a big hit in the job trailer on Monday. :D
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Take plenty of pictures of both job progress and your work. If something gets stolen overnight, you have proof you installed it. As for job progress, document anything that is holding you up, whether it be framing, HVAC, plumbing, etc. If the GC tries to come back on you because he did not make the deadline, you have proof for the court that you did your due dillegence. We do it all the time on commercial jobs, and it has paid off more than once.
 

readydave8

re member
Location
Clarkesville, Georgia
Occupation
electrician
This situation may be different, but:

Every job I've done that was already behind schedule when I started, and that framing wasn't complete when I started, turned out to be a stressful, chaotic, low profit job. Probably my fault for not handling things better.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
This situation may be different, but:

Every job I've done that was already behind schedule when I started, and that framing wasn't complete when I started, turned out to be a stressful, chaotic, low profit job. Probably my fault for not handling things better.

And it also seemed like the only one working their butts off to catch up were the electricians.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
This situation may be different, but:

Every job I've done that was already behind schedule when I started, and that framing wasn't complete when I started, turned out to be a stressful, chaotic, low profit job. Probably my fault for not handling things better.

And it also seemed like the only ones working their butts off to catch up were the electricians.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Usually, the GC or property owner owns the material as it's installed. If you have to reinstall because something was stolen, charge for that and let the insurance company and the GC figure it out. You do the work, you should be paid for it, no matter how many times you have to (re)do it.

That said, make sure that everyone knows that site security isn't your job*, and that reinstalling will be charged (and tell them how you'll figure out that cost). There shouldn't be any surprises if this happens, other than the theft itself.

*locking up shouldn't even be your responsibility unless they accept that you do it every time. That is, they don't get to argue whether the door was locked or not if there's a theft.
If you are the last one to leave or are the only one there, especially if you are working late or on weekends, I think you should be responsible for locking up.
 
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