how do you view this FA interconnection with relays

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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
In full disclosure, I'm trying to document all the possible reasons this is noncompliant for a custom, as it was approved without the AHJ getting all the info.

DPDT vane type waterflow switch, upon activation:

one side triggers an alarm on a conventional zone on the 'master FACP'

Other side is a switch leg of 24VDC nonresettable power from the 'master FACP.'. When the switch changes state it triggers a DPDT relay. This relay is adjcent to the waterflow switch. The two Sets of contacts independently trigger 'slave FACP 1' and 'slave FACP 2' into general alarm through a zone on those slave panels.

The 24 vdc nonresettable power from the master FACP is supervised by a end of line power supervision relay in the cabinet next to the waterflow switch. The switch leg from the cabinet to the waterflow switch is obviously beyond that power supervision relay.

The master panel notifies the responding authorities only. The two slave panels notify occupants only through their NACs.

The master panel is not located near either slave panel. Neither slave panel is co-located.

The master panel also supervises the two slave panels for alarm and trouble.

The slave panels do not have any input from the master panel or each other. Although there is a 1 hour partition between the two independent areas served by the two slave panels, no non-waterflow alarm will activate both.panels.

The slave panels do not cross supervise the master panel.

Assume all components are listed for their use (or so I'm told) and when conduit is required, it's in use.


Putting aside the theory of operation, good design, AHJ considerations, having to reset 3 panels etc. what's wrong here?

2010 NFPA 72, 2008 NFPA 70 are enforced.


Lack of supervision of the 24VDC switch leg?
Can you use aux power for initiating?
The panels are not in the same room, connected by conduit, would you not have to cross supervise?

Any input?
 
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MichaelGP3

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco bay area
Occupation
Fire Alarm Technician
I had to read this twice in order to get it; not your fault, it's just kind of unusual (thankfully). Should we envision this like it is a strip mall?

I'll assume that the power supervision relay and the interposing relay current draws were accounted for in the battery calculations for the master FACP.

You stated that the AHJ "didn't have all of the info". Do the details on drawings submitted to the AHJ reflect what you have described? If so, and the AHJ approved it (whether or not they understood the details on the drawings), it's going to be hard to argue, unless an insurance entity steps in.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Further, it is my understanding that an AHJ can approve a non-code compliant installation.

Agreed. Yes a strip mall of sorts. This AHJ does not know fire alarm all that well. Instead they require proof you are competent in design and swear its code compliant or list the exceptions for a permit.


Here's where is really gets confusing:

The conversation regarding this matter included the statement by the AHJ: 'I don't care how you do it as long as its code compliant.' The other contractor said this mess was the only option and it is fine. The AHJ took their word. No plans have been approved yet, but after this conversation I don't know what they'll do. Not sure if the other contractor understands what they actually proposed/

I have no idea what their plans will look like, but I'd love to see an updated Record of Completion stating the deviation from 72. I'm betting it wont though.


I am not responsible for their work and will not be able verify if it is correct, as we cannot to do any work outside the tenant space the other guy is bringing me the wire from the switch. I can look at it and tell the PE, he only cared if the equipment was UL listed. He wasn't going to get into another's design. I recommended that PE include specific language stating we cannot verify what the other contractors work, only provide connection to take an alarm from them. Although I don't know if they made it in there. I'm just consulting on this one.

If, your head is spinning after reading this I understand, I'm still dizzy from typing it.
 
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