Laundry circuit

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kimrichi

Member
If the laundry circuit is 20amp circuit with 120 volt why we consider VA only 1500 VA although should be 20 x120 or 2400 VA
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I think It's a 20 amp circuit because you plugging in a gas dryer as well..

Around here we don't see many gas dryers. You have to remember that the calculation is for the service or feeder not for the branch circuit. Irons get used also but I have never seen many issues with this. I usually run a circuit for the washer, 240V for the dryer- if it is a gas dryer I will convert the 240 dryer outlet.
 

Greg1707

Senior Member
Location
Alexandria, VA
Occupation
Business owner Electrical contractor
GE washer/15 amp

GE washer/15 amp

I just checked the installation instructions for a GE Energy Star Washer. According to the instructions, the washer requires "an individual 15 amp circuit."
Does this mean I now have to install not only the NEC required 20 amp circuit but the 15 amp manufacturer required circuit? What a dilemma!
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I just checked the installation instructions for a GE Energy Star Washer. According to the instructions, the washer requires "an individual 15 amp circuit."
Does this mean I now have to install not only the NEC required 20 amp circuit but the 15 amp manufacturer required circuit? What a dilemma!

IMO, no because one could run a 20 amp conductor and land it on a 15 amp breaker. I doubt too many ahj's would go after this as many units call for a 15 or a 20 amp circuit. Does it say 15 amp req. or minimum 15 amp circuit req.
 

Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
The manufacturer listed it as "minimum requirment". A 20A would be above that. And even though it will only draw, at most, 10A to 12A; you need to consider your calculations and do the 80% rule. That still might keep you under 15A, but why take the chance. The small amount of money you'd save is nothing compared to starting a fire, although unlikely.
Hope this helps:)
 

jumper

Senior Member
The manufacturer listed it as "minimum requirment". A 20A would be above that. And even though it will only draw, at most, 10A to 12A; you need to consider your calculations and do the 80% rule. That still might keep you under 15A, but why take the chance. The small amount of money you'd save is nothing compared to starting a fire, although unlikely.
Hope this helps:)

Rock, the "80% rule" is for continuous loads and a laundry circuit is not generally considered one.
 

Rock Crusher

Member
Location
Ne. USA
... the "80% rule" is for continuous loads and a laundry circuit is not generally considered one.

Now you're going to make me look everything up:slaphead:

We always used the 80% rule for all calculations with outlets, lighting, and what not. I never bothered to remember the code section that applies. I will now refresh my memory:thumbsup:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Now you're going to make me look everything up:slaphead:

We always used the 80% rule for all calculations with outlets, lighting, and what not. I never bothered to remember the code section that applies. I will now refresh my memory:thumbsup:

80% rule is for continuous loads. The washing machine may cycle for over 3 hours but it is not continuous.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I think the NEC Forum would be a better place for this thread, but I'll post here, as the topic has been opened.

Looks like I've been doing it 'wrong' all along.

I HAD understood that the laundry receptacle requirement was so there was some place to plug in the iron. I had understood the 'no other outlets' to mean that the circuit could feed only outlets in the laundry area. So, to use a common example of my work, I would put the receptacles for the washer, the dryer igniter, and the convenience receptacle for the ironing board / counter all on the same circuit.

A closer look at the 2011 edition tells me I'm wrong.

In 2011, we're REQUIRED (210.52(F)) to have a receptacle WITHIN 6-FT (210.50(C)) of the intended appliance, with 'laundry' cited as an example. This can have NO OTHER outlets (210.11(C)(2)) and must be a 20-A (210.11(C)(2)) circuit.

Hmm.

That means: single receptacle. No duplex. Need another circuit for the dryer igniter and iron 'convenience' receptacle.

I suppose you could 'split' a duplex and place to to serve both appliances, but that puts you in the unusual position of being in compliance right up to the moment the washer gets plugged into the 'wrong' half.

What's significant is that the note added to 210.50(C) makes clear that the 'appliance' the 'laundry' circuit is serving is the washer, and not the iron.

I suppose the 'good news' is that 210.12 does not seem to require these circuits to be AFCI protected. It's hard for me to tell; I'm looking at the "Oregon" edition, and this is a section they've played with.

That's probably not a good thing. (And to think I oppose AFCI's!) Why? Because cod limits our washer cord to 6-ft. It's quite easy to place the receptacle where the washer cord won't reach it, or be readily accessible for unplugging the machine. I really wish they allowed longer cords; you're almost building in a requirement for an extension cord to be used.

I also question the wisdom of requiring a 20-A dedicated circuit. We usually size circuits to the load, and conventional practice would see nearly every washer on a 15-A circuit. Heck, if the 'appliance' were anything else, code rules might require a 10-A circuit!

Any thoughts?
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrical,HVAC, Technical Trainer
I think the NEC Forum would be a better place for this thread, but I'll post here, as the topic has been opened. Looks like I've been doing it 'wrong' all along. I HAD understood that the laundry receptacle requirement was so there was some place to plug in the iron. I had understood the 'no other outlets' to mean that the circuit could feed only outlets in the laundry area. So, to use a common example of my work, I would put the receptacles for the washer, the dryer igniter, and the convenience receptacle for the ironing board / counter all on the same circuit. A closer look at the 2011 edition tells me I'm wrong. In 2011, we're REQUIRED (210.52(F)) to have a receptacle WITHIN 6-FT (210.50(C)) of the intended appliance, with 'laundry' cited as an example. This can have NO OTHER outlets (210.11(C)(2)) and must be a 20-A (210.11(C)(2)) circuit. Hmm. That means: single receptacle. No duplex. Need another circuit for the dryer igniter and iron 'convenience' receptacle. I suppose you could 'split' a duplex and place to to serve both appliances, but that puts you in the unusual position of being in compliance right up to the moment the washer gets plugged into the 'wrong' half. What's significant is that the note added to 210.50(C) makes clear that the 'appliance' the 'laundry' circuit is serving is the washer, and not the iron. I suppose the 'good news' is that 210.12 does not seem to require these circuits to be AFCI protected. It's hard for me to tell; I'm looking at the "Oregon" edition, and this is a section they've played with. That's probably not a good thing. (And to think I oppose AFCI's!) Why? Because cod limits our washer cord to 6-ft. It's quite easy to place the receptacle where the washer cord won't reach it, or be readily accessible for unplugging the machine. I really wish they allowed longer cords; you're almost building in a requirement for an extension cord to be used. I also question the wisdom of requiring a 20-A dedicated circuit. We usually size circuits to the load, and conventional practice would see nearly every washer on a 15-A circuit. Heck, if the 'appliance' were anything else, code rules might require a 10-A circuit! Any thoughts?
Proposal to Change 2011 NEC 2-177 Log #525 NEC-P02 Final Action: Accept in Principle (210.52(F)) ________________________________________________________________ Submitter: Kelvin McDowell, Randolph Community College Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows: 210.52(F) Laundry Areas. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the laundry equipment. Substantiation: By adding the word ?equipment? there would be no misunderstanding that this receptacle is for the laundry equipment instead of a receptacle to be installed for no reason or purpose. It seems to be the consensus of electricians that this receptacle and the circuit required in 210.11(C)(2) does not have to supply anything and the laundry equipment such as washing machines, gas dryers, and smoothing irons installed in the laundry areas can be supplied from a general purpose circuit. Note: Supporting material is available for review at NFPA Headquarters. Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle Revise the proposed language as follows: ?210.52(F) Laundry Areas. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in areas designated for the installation of laundry equipment.? Panel Statement: This revision clarifies the intent of this provision and accomplishes the objective of the submitter. Number Eligible to Vote: 11 Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11
 

JES2727

Senior Member
Location
NJ
I think the NEC Forum would be a better place for this thread, but I'll post here, as the topic has been opened.

Looks like I've been doing it 'wrong' all along.

I HAD understood that the laundry receptacle requirement was so there was some place to plug in the iron. I had understood the 'no other outlets' to mean that the circuit could feed only outlets in the laundry area. So, to use a common example of my work, I would put the receptacles for the washer, the dryer igniter, and the convenience receptacle for the ironing board / counter all on the same circuit.

A closer look at the 2011 edition tells me I'm wrong.

In 2011, we're REQUIRED (210.52(F)) to have a receptacle WITHIN 6-FT (210.50(C)) of the intended appliance, with 'laundry' cited as an example. This can have NO OTHER outlets (210.11(C)(2)) and must be a 20-A (210.11(C)(2)) circuit.


Hmm.

That means: single receptacle. No duplex. Need another circuit for the dryer igniter and iron 'convenience' receptacle.

I don't see where it requires a single receptacle. 210.11(C) even refers to "laundry receptacle outlet(s)".



What's significant is that the note added to 210.50(C) makes clear that the 'appliance' the 'laundry' circuit is serving is the washer, and not the iron.
What note??
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Jes, I apologize for the wait ... I had to consult another version of the 2011 NEC. The "Oregon" copy I used the other day has some 'editing,' and I was not sure what was original and what was not.

I get the single receptacle requirement from 210.11(C)(2), and it's use of the phrase 'no other outlets.' We usually construe this to mean a single receptacle, as the 'individual branch circuit' 210.11(C)(2) requires means 'dedicated circuit.' Of course, we're tossed a curve ball with the word 'equipment,' as that word, unchanged, can be either singular or plural.

I suppose a duplex serving both the washer and dryer igniter would be compliant. Would the ironing area receptacle also be construed as serving 'laundry equipment?'

As for the 'note:' The Oregon text has added an extensive text, in parentheses, to 210.50C. The original NEC text only includes the phrase 'such as laundry' in the main body of the text. No parenthesis.

Again, we have that quirk: what, exactly, is 'laundry equipment?'

I think this is bad code. Apart from the terms being vague, even contradictory, the requirements are scattered over at least three separate sections of the NEC (there's also a reference in 550). IMO, this is what happens when you cross the line from 'minimum requirements' into 'design.' It's also a problem with 'one fits all' solutions, in general.

I'd even call this 'micro-management,' for I have yet to see any problems with circuit loading in any house that was intended to have laundry equipment. Where there have been issues, it was with things added later. Heck, I can think of plenty of places where the stack washer/dryer is in the kitchen, and hooks to the kitchen sink faucet. Other places have the dryer cobbled onto the range / water heater 240v circuit. (Note that the NEC laundry requirements do not address the latter).
 

Sandman1110

Member
Location
Coastal Oregon
Jes, I apologize for the wait ... I had to consult another version of the 2011 NEC. The "Oregon" copy I used the other day has some 'editing,' and I was not sure what was original and what was not.

I get the single receptacle requirement from 210.11(C)(2), and it's use of the phrase 'no other outlets.' We usually construe this to mean a single receptacle, as the 'individual branch circuit' 210.11(C)(2) requires means 'dedicated circuit.' Of course, we're tossed a curve ball with the word 'equipment,' as that word, unchanged, can be either singular or plural.

I suppose a duplex serving both the washer and dryer igniter would be compliant. Would the ironing area receptacle also be construed as serving 'laundry equipment?'

As for the 'note:' The Oregon text has added an extensive text, in parentheses, to 210.50C. The original NEC text only includes the phrase 'such as laundry' in the main body of the text. No parenthesis.

Again, we have that quirk: what, exactly, is 'laundry equipment?'

I think this is bad code. Apart from the terms being vague, even contradictory, the requirements are scattered over at least three separate sections of the NEC (there's also a reference in 550). IMO, this is what happens when you cross the line from 'minimum requirements' into 'design.' It's also a problem with 'one fits all' solutions, in general.

I'd even call this 'micro-management,' for I have yet to see any problems with circuit loading in any house that was intended to have laundry equipment. Where there have been issues, it was with things added later. Heck, I can think of plenty of places where the stack washer/dryer is in the kitchen, and hooks to the kitchen faucet. Other places have the dryer cobbled onto the range / water heater 240v circuit. (Note that the NEC laundry requirements do not address the latter).


If you need to find the most up-to-date version of OESC (Oregon Electrical Specialty Code), go to the Oregon Building Codes website where you'll find it in a "read only" format. http://www.cbs.state.or.us/bcd/

I'm a bit confused with your code refs.....specifically the extended text for 210.50(C), there was no OESC rewrite for this section in this code cycle.

Since 210.11(C)(2) makes a reference to "receptacle(s)" for the laundry, I've always considered it to mean the receptacles in the laundry and not appliance specific (except for an electric dryer). Although, any receptacle intended for the washer or dryer must be within 6'. Also, since the circuit is required to be a 20A ckt when we know that most washers won't draw anywhere near that, leads me to believe that the ckt is intended to be space related and not appliance related. The definition for appliance includes "functions such as clothes washing".

Perhaps it's time for a simple definition to be added to NEC for the laundry to help clear up this confusion.
 

tbartek

Member
Location
Altoona, PA
I think the NEC Forum would be a better place for this thread, but I'll post here, as the topic has been opened.

Looks like I've been doing it 'wrong' all along.

I HAD understood that the laundry receptacle requirement was so there was some place to plug in the iron. I had understood the 'no other outlets' to mean that the circuit could feed only outlets in the laundry area. So, to use a common example of my work, I would put the receptacles for the washer, the dryer igniter, and the convenience receptacle for the ironing board / counter all on the same circuit.

A closer look at the 2011 edition tells me I'm wrong.

In 2011, we're REQUIRED (210.52(F)) to have a receptacle WITHIN 6-FT (210.50(C)) of the intended appliance, with 'laundry' cited as an example. This can have NO OTHER outlets (210.11(C)(2)) and must be a 20-A (210.11(C)(2)) circuit.

Hmm.

That means: single receptacle. No duplex. Need another circuit for the dryer igniter and iron 'convenience' receptacle.

I suppose you could 'split' a duplex and place to to serve both appliances, but that puts you in the unusual position of being in compliance right up to the moment the washer gets plugged into the 'wrong' half.

What's significant is that the note added to 210.50(C) makes clear that the 'appliance' the 'laundry' circuit is serving is the washer, and not the iron.

I suppose the 'good news' is that 210.12 does not seem to require these circuits to be AFCI protected. It's hard for me to tell; I'm looking at the "Oregon" edition, and this is a section they've played with.

That's probably not a good thing. (And to think I oppose AFCI's!) Why? Because cod limits our washer cord to 6-ft. It's quite easy to place the receptacle where the washer cord won't reach it, or be readily accessible for unplugging the machine. I really wish they allowed longer cords; you're almost building in a requirement for an extension cord to be used.

I also question the wisdom of requiring a 20-A dedicated circuit. We usually size circuits to the load, and conventional practice would see nearly every washer on a 15-A circuit. Heck, if the 'appliance' were anything else, code rules might require a 10-A circuit!

Any thoughts?

210.11(C)(2) is requiring a laundry "circuit" not an outlet for the washing machine. At least one receptacle on this "circuit" must be within 6' of the intended location of the laundry. It has to be a 20A Circuit. If it was a dedicated receptacle for the washing machine you could load it to 100%. The 80% single equipment rule only applies to a plug in on a multi outlet circuit. No other outlets means you can't have an outlet outside the laundry area on this circuit.
 

MarineTech

Member
Location
Camarillo, CA
I think the NEC Forum would be a better place for this thread, but I'll post here, as the topic has been opened.

Looks like I've been doing it 'wrong' all along.

I HAD understood that the laundry receptacle requirement was so there was some place to plug in the iron. I had understood the 'no other outlets' to mean that the circuit could feed only outlets in the laundry area. So, to use a common example of my work, I would put the receptacles for the washer, the dryer igniter, and the convenience receptacle for the ironing board / counter all on the same circuit.

A closer look at the 2011 edition tells me I'm wrong.

In 2011, we're REQUIRED (210.52(F)) to have a receptacle WITHIN 6-FT (210.50(C)) of the intended appliance, with 'laundry' cited as an example. This can have NO OTHER outlets (210.11(C)(2)) and must be a 20-A (210.11(C)(2)) circuit.

Hmm.

That means: single receptacle. No duplex. Need another circuit for the dryer igniter and iron 'convenience' receptacle.

I suppose you could 'split' a duplex and place to to serve both appliances, but that puts you in the unusual position of being in compliance right up to the moment the washer gets plugged into the 'wrong' half.

What's significant is that the note added to 210.50(C) makes clear that the 'appliance' the 'laundry' circuit is serving is the washer, and not the iron.

I suppose the 'good news' is that 210.12 does not seem to require these circuits to be AFCI protected. It's hard for me to tell; I'm looking at the "Oregon" edition, and this is a section they've played with.

That's probably not a good thing. (And to think I oppose AFCI's!) Why? Because cod limits our washer cord to 6-ft. It's quite easy to place the receptacle where the washer cord won't reach it, or be readily accessible for unplugging the machine. I really wish they allowed longer cords; you're almost building in a requirement for an extension cord to be used.

I also question the wisdom of requiring a 20-A dedicated circuit. We usually size circuits to the load, and conventional practice would see nearly every washer on a 15-A circuit. Heck, if the 'appliance' were anything else, code rules might require a 10-A circuit!

Any thoughts?

NEC 2011N

Put the Washer and Dryer(Gas) in the Garage (popular in southern California) and the branch circuit is GFCI.

But consider these two large examples (120 VAC installation):

Example of a large capacity washer, LG WM8000HVA; Electrical Requirements = 120V at 10 Amps.

Example of a large capacity gas dryer. LG DLGX8001V; Electrical Requirements = 120V at 15 Amps.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
210.11(C)(2) is requiring a laundry "circuit" not an outlet for the washing machine. At least one receptacle on this "circuit" must be within 6' of the intended location of the laundry. It has to be a 20A Circuit. If it was a dedicated receptacle for the washing machine you could load it to 100%. The 80% single equipment rule only applies to a plug in on a multi outlet circuit. No other outlets means you can't have an outlet outside the laundry area on this circuit.

Exactly, well put.
 
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