Connecting residential service

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sunny4444

Member
Location
New Bedford,MA
Hello forum, today i was replacing a typical 100a service. Two electricians had different opinions on if you should cut both hots and then the neutral. The other said you should cut the neutral first and then the hots. Subsequently they also disagreed on that when reconnecting the service the neutral should be connected first and then the hots, but the other electrician said the opposite. I am wondering what everyone else does, thanks
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
As long as the meter isn't set then it doesn't matter. My preference is to hook the hots first so I don't accidentally bump the bare neutral when it is connected. It is easier to get the neutral out of harms way when it is not connected.
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Hello forum, today i was replacing a typical 100a service. Two electricians had different opinions on if you should cut both hots and then the neutral. The other said you should cut the neutral first and then the hots. Subsequently they also disagreed on that when reconnecting the service the neutral should be connected first and then the hots, but the other electrician said the opposite. I am wondering what everyone else does, thanks
Do it in the order you feel comfortable with,Like Dennis said make sure the meter is out.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I always cut the hots first and reconnect them last. I know it makes no difference with the meter pulled but why go against proper procedure? If the meter wasn't or couldn't be pulled what would you cut first?

-Hal
 

bobbymari

Senior Member
Location
los angeles ca
seems kind of funny 2 electricians were arguing about this unless of course its one of those times poco is taking there sweet time unlocking meter and your talking cutting power at point of attachment. if meter was in absolutly hots first, or some appliances probably gonna get toasted. as mentioned above if meter is out it really doesnt matter but since your question was asking opinions i always stay in the habit of hots before neutral.
 
Hello forum, today i was replacing a typical 100a service. Two electricians had different opinions on if you should cut both hots and then the neutral. The other said you should cut the neutral first and then the hots. Subsequently they also disagreed on that when reconnecting the service the neutral should be connected first and then the hots, but the other electrician said the opposite. I am wondering what everyone else does, thanks

I'm guessing the scenario you are referring to is where POCO's live overhead wires connect to the premises service wires. If so, I follow the procedure my local POCO mandates. I cut hots, then cut neutral. I reconnect neutral, then reconnect hots.
 

scook56

Member
Location
Allentown, PA
Disconnect/Re-connect

Disconnect/Re-connect

I'm guessing the scenario you are referring to is where POCO's live overhead wires connect to the premises service wires. If so, I follow the procedure my local POCO mandates. I cut hots, then cut neutral. I reconnect neutral, then reconnect hots.

Black off.
White on.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I am not going to go crazy here but I will point out the following.

There is no code / standard / regulation compliant way for any electrical contractor employee (not working for an electrical utility) to cut free or tie in a service drop regardless of the utilities traditions or expectations.

It is live work that is prohibited.

If you are a business owner and allow, or even expect your employees to do this you are in violation, are subject to large fines and if the employee gets injured or killed you will be in an indefensible position.

Now when I used to do that work it would be hots off first and connected last.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I always cut the hots first and reconnect them last. I know it makes no difference with the meter pulled but why go against proper procedure? If the meter wasn't or couldn't be pulled what would you cut first?

-Hal

If meter is in place, you still want mains opened so you are connecting to no load conditions.

There is no code / standard / regulation compliant way for any electrical contractor employee (not working for an electrical utility) to cut free or tie in a service drop regardless of the utilities traditions or expectations.

It is live work that is prohibited.

Although I agree with you it still brings up the question why can the POCO employees do it but a EC employee can not? Are linemen less vulnerable to the hazards? Does the service drop know when it is a lineman vs an electrician? I don't think so.

OSHA, 70E, or other organizations or standards primarily apply to protection of people, not job titles. Yet those standards do segregate people to an extent at times by using terms like "qualified individuals".

As long as the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing everything is fine:happyyes:
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Although I agree with you it still brings up the question why can the POCO employees do it but a EC employee can not? Are linemen less vulnerable to the hazards? Does the service drop know when it is a lineman vs an electrician? I don't think so.

Because of 90.2(B). We aren't under the 70E:p :lol:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Although I agree with you it still brings up the question why can the POCO employees do it but a EC employee can not?

Power company employees are not subject to the same OSHA standards, they have their own set of OSHA standards.

As far as the why .... partly tradition for sure but arc flash / blast is much less of a problem in the open air than it is in a confined piece of switch gear.

You might also remember that power company workers almost always get more / better safety training then the vast majority of EC workers.

How often have you seen a power company worker doing hot work without PPE?

How often have you seen an EC worker doing hot work with no PPE.



Because of 90.2(B). We aren't under the 70E:p :lol:

I am not sure 90.2(B) of the NEC has anything to do with it.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I usually pull the meter and in cutting I also cut the neutral first to get it out of the way. You would not want to cut the neutral first with power still going to the panel.
 
Power company employees are not subject to the same OSHA standards, they have their own set of OSHA standards.

As far as the why .... partly tradition for sure but arc flash / blast is much less of a problem in the open air than it is in a confined piece of switch gear.

You might also remember that power company workers almost always get more / better safety training then the vast majority of EC workers.

How often have you seen a power company worker doing hot work without PPE?

How often have you seen an EC worker doing hot work with no PPE.



I am not sure 90.2(B) of the NEC has anything to do with it.


(Proving your point) My POCO did make me sit in on a 1/2 hour course prior to adding adding me to the Disconnect/Reconnect list!!
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Nobody is under 70E, until it is determined to be the standard they are going to follow.

Employees are all under OSHA, OSHA does not say you must use 70E. I don't know exactly what OSHA says but something to the effect that employers must have procedures, guidelines, safety program, etc. 70E is just a publication that happens to be something that can be adopted to meet such rules, and most of the time is what is used. Why spend the time creating and updating your own SOP when a third party does all this for you, and is likely much more dedicated to getting it right?

I don't know what differences OSHA may have for linemen than electricians, but AFIC same task has same hazards no matter who is doing it. Training to do such task does make it safer than "winging it". I do understand arc blast is different in open air than in enclosed gear. Still, connecting a service to a drop is the same task with same hazards no matter who is doing it. JMO.
 

Hv&Lv

Senior Member
Location
-
Occupation
Engineer/Technician
Nobody is under 70E, until it is determined to be the standard they are going to follow.

Employees are all under OSHA, OSHA does not say you must use 70E. I don't know exactly what OSHA says but something to the effect that employers must have procedures, guidelines, safety program, etc. 70E is just a publication that happens to be something that can be adopted to meet such rules, and most of the time is what is used. Why spend the time creating and updating your own SOP when a third party does all this for you, and is likely much more dedicated to getting it right?

I don't know what differences OSHA may have for linemen than electricians, but AFIC same task has same hazards no matter who is doing it. Training to do such task does make it safer than "winging it". I do understand arc blast is different in open air than in enclosed gear. Still, connecting a service to a drop is the same task with same hazards no matter who is doing it. JMO.

http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2004/405.html

OSHA says to deenergize also.
 
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