Satellite cabling

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steve_p

Senior Member
Rewiring a house, rodent damage.
The ceiling throughout the house is coming down, no attic.

This house had RG6 warped around the eaves by previous installers. All this has been removed, and new coax is to be run.

I don't know much if anything about satellite TV.

I think the owner wants two receivers, each two tv capable.

How many home runs are needed to the main receiver area these days?
Are phone lines still needed for them to update?

Steve
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
Location
Herriman, UT
Occupation
A/V/Security Technician
While only one cable is needed for satellite (DirecTV anyway), it's always best to pull in a minimum of 2 cables to each outlet. That gives the homeowner the option of adding OTA to their viewing capabilities. Some people have both satellite and cable, while others have both DirecTV and Dish Network.

Dish Network receivers have a 2nd tuner that can be used to feed a 2nd TV set. A second cable could be used in that scenario.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Are phone lines still needed for them to update?
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These days the receivers may still have a phone line connection, but much prefer to have an Internet connection. This can be in the form of twisted-pair internet, in which case you will need a standard CAT6 connection back to a network router or else Wi-Fi, in which case either an internal or external Wi-Fi adapter will link to a wireless routes somewhere in the home.
This is needed for automatic pay-per-view through the remote control (rather than by a manual phone call), and for some interactive functions. The normal update of the guide information and the initial unit activation is done one-way over data channels on the satellite signal.

Regarding number of cables to pull, a minimum of two home runs from each outlet to an accessible central point should do the job. For satellite, it will be necessary for the cable connecting the receiver to the antenna to carry the DC power from receiver to dish, so you are limited in what you can do with that specific cable run. Cables which connect a second TV to a single receiver will carry just the RF video signal to the second TV. Cables to a second receiver box from one dish will be wired so that only one of the receivers supplies the power to the dish.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I agree with running a CAT5e or 6 to each set location from the router location. Many TVs have internet capability and although they may have WiFi, wired is going to be much faster.

-Hal
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I had the "Hopper and Joey" installed from Dish network. It was just an upgrade from what I had, but the guy ran some new cables.
I would suggest contacting whoever his satellite provider is and asking them what they require. You could tell them the situation and that you want to run the cables as you wire.

If they come and install, they might just drill down through the roof for each room.:rant:
That was only partly "tongue and cheek" because most of their installers are clueless of how to properly run the cable. Also, they don't pay the guys very well and expect X number of installs per day. There is no incentive for them to do it right.

Anyway, getting the info from the provider will help you know where/how many cables are needed.
 

steve_p

Senior Member
Thanks for the replies. Going to the provider (directv) is useless. The customer could not gt them to give any info, and I am not going to get on the phone with them. These contracted installers they send out...well I don't want to bad mouth them.

Two runs it will be and a cat5 drop.
 

darekelec

Senior Member
Location
nyc
Hey, guys. Let me ask you here who would be responsible around your area to pull grounding wire to dish and telephone service - electrician or catv installer?
its better to run it when walls are open and cable guys come after owner moves in.
I am asking cause nobody does it in my area
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Nobody is responsible as long as it gets done properly. In my opinion that pretty much means the electrician since the dish guy doesn't have a clue. Problem is you don't know where the dish guy will install the dish and cables. Then the cable company has their own rules about where to ground. Around here Cablevision uses a strap clamp around the SE squeeze connector on the top of the meter pan and then they take a picture of it. I don't think they would know what to do (or maybe they would be fired) if we provided one of those ground blocks for phone, cable, etc.

Seems nobody is on the same page.

-Hal
 

jacobsond

Member
If an electrician would put a ground bar by the service entrance or the panel would be wonderful.Alot of grounding doesn't get done because the sat or cable guy just doesn't know and doesn't want to try to find the proper ground point. When I install and I see a ground bar by the SE or the panel Its going to be a good day. Run 2 cables to each location and a cat5 cable swept to 3ghz is what dish requires. Dont cheap out on the cable. Solid copper is not required for dishnet but the 3GHz is and a dish guy following the dish rules will wrap your house with his cable and not use internal if he doesnt want to fail his quality check.
 

eHunter

Senior Member
If an electrician would put a ground bar by the service entrance or the panel would be wonderful.Alot of grounding doesn't get done because the sat or cable guy just doesn't know and doesn't want to try to find the proper ground point. When I install and I see a ground bar by the SE or the panel Its going to be a good day. Run 2 cables to each location and a cat5 cable swept to 3ghz is what dish requires. Dont cheap out on the cable. Solid copper is not required for dishnet but the 3GHz is and a dish guy following the dish rules will wrap your house with his cable and not use internal if he doesnt want to fail his quality check.

It is known as intersystem bonding.
See 250.94

Link to intersystem bonding devices:

https://www.google.com/search?num=1...1.1.0....0...1c.2.22.hp..0.1.1328.L2iw_s1FDS0

Use 2 RG-6 quad shield cables to each receiver location back to a central distribution point and add a multi-switch berween the distribution and the satellite dish lnb/c to enable full sat channel access on each receiver.
 

Speedskater

Senior Member
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Occupation
retired broadcast, audio and industrial R&D engineering
*************
Don't cheap out on the cable. Solid copper is not required for dishnet but the 3GHz is and a dish guy following the dish rules will wrap your house with his cable and not use internal if he doesn't want to fail his quality check.

I thought that they needed a solid copper center conductor for the DC power supply?
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
I stopped fooling with the dish installers years ago. Seemed no mater what I installed they would tell the HO it was the wrong thing. Then the HO would call saying it was the wrong cable, seems 2 RG-6 are not the same as a Siamese RG-6 :?. Now I just install the boxes and stub out smurf tube in the crawl space and let them pull what ever they want. I will also drop a dime on them to the inspector if they do not ground properly. If something happens its the electrician they look at " how could an improperly grounded satellite system set something on fire?"
 

egnlsn

Senior Member
Location
Herriman, UT
Occupation
A/V/Security Technician
I thought that they needed a solid copper center conductor for the DC power supply?

It isn't that it needs to be solid copper, although for longer runs (100'+) it would probably be be better. I've done plenty of 75'+ runs with no issues.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I stopped fooling with the dish installers years ago. Seemed no mater what I installed they would tell the HO it was the wrong thing. Then the HO would call saying it was the wrong cable, seems 2 RG-6 are not the same as a Siamese RG-6 :?. Now I just install the boxes and stub out smurf tube in the crawl space and let them pull what ever they want. I will also drop a dime on them to the inspector if they do not ground properly. If something happens its the electrician they look at " how could an improperly grounded satellite system set something on fire?"

I once pulled all the satellite cables out and what did not pull out easy I cut from a set of holes through floor joists that I had drilled and did have plans for eventually pulling other cables through. When satellite guys showed up I told them to drill their own #%& holes:rant:

I don't normally do something like this, but this was probably around a $500K home they did very sloppy work in areas that would remain exposed, which there was no excuse for being exposed IMO, then when I saw how nice and neat and convenient it was when my holes were used I had enough of them.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I stopped fooling with the dish installers years ago. Seemed no mater what I installed they would tell the HO it was the wrong thing. Then the HO would call saying it was the wrong cable, seems 2 RG-6 are not the same as a Siamese RG-6 :?. Now I just install the boxes and stub out smurf tube in the crawl space and let them pull what ever they want. I will also drop a dime on them to the inspector if they do not ground properly. If something happens its the electrician they look at " how could an improperly grounded satellite system set something on fire?"

I once pulled all the satellite cables out and what did not pull out easy I cut from a set of holes through floor joists that I had drilled and did have plans for eventually pulling other cables through. When satellite guys showed up I told them to drill their own #%& holes:rant:

I don't normally do something like this, but this was probably around a $500K home they did very sloppy work in areas that would remain exposed, which there was no excuse for being exposed IMO, then when I saw how nice and neat and convenient it was when my holes were used I had enough of them.

Actually I have been saying this for years including the cable companies also. The homeowner pays for your work then the sat or cable guy comes to finish and says it's not right. That's not going to make you look good even if you are correct.

-Hal
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
I once pulled all the satellite cables out and what did not pull out easy I cut from a set of holes through floor joists that I had drilled and did have plans for eventually pulling other cables through. When satellite guys showed up I told them to drill their own #%& holes:rant:

I don't normally do something like this, but this was probably around a $500K home they did very sloppy work in areas that would remain exposed, which there was no excuse for being exposed IMO, then when I saw how nice and neat and convenient it was when my holes were used I had enough of them.
Feel the same and have done the same with the central vacuum people.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I once pulled all the satellite cables out and what did not pull out easy I cut from a set of holes through floor joists that I had drilled and did have plans for eventually pulling other cables through. When satellite guys showed up I told them to drill their own #%& holes:rant:

I don't normally do something like this, but this was probably around a $500K home they did very sloppy work in areas that would remain exposed, which there was no excuse for being exposed IMO, then when I saw how nice and neat and convenient it was when my holes were used I had enough of them.

Must have been the same installers that I encountered!
I was running a feeder wire to a sub panel and had drilled a hole for my cable to go into and across the attic. It was, first of all, hot that day, and second it was difficult to drill the hole where I had to put it.

I was working in the other part of the house at the main panel. When I went up in the attic to fish the wire across and through the hole I drilled I couldn't see much daylight through the hole. So I went to place something in the hole so I could make sure I was at the right hole.
Then when I walked into the room to where the hole was drilled I saw some other guys in there. The HO said these were the cable guys and were running their cables for the new addition. Ok with me (I thought) as long as we could work around each other.

Well I looked up where I drilled my hole and I saw why I wasn't seeing much daylight.
Yep, those clowns filled the hole with their cables!:rant:

I had to really fight myself to keep from taking my cutters and cutting their cables!:happysad:

I did manage to get my conductors in the hole but it wasn't easy. I did tell the guys it would have been nice had they asked before doing that and maybe I could have enlarged the hole some.:roll:

I don't think they much cared as they didn't say anything.:thumbsdown:
 

jacobsond

Member
Electricians around here must not know about inter-system bonding because I have seen it less than 5 times in the last few years in new homes I have done.Dish Network only requires copper clad rg6 swept to 3ghz vextra V66 is what I use.You can get in dual cable also.Direct TV may require solid copper I dont know about them so you may just want to use the solid.Suppliers around here know if their cable is dish or direct approved. If they dont maybe they should find out for their customer (you guys)The dish installer is usually doing a "free" install.That means for most companies get the job done and working. Neatness is not a priority. Honestly I use what ever cable is in the wall as long as its RG6. Im independent so the Quality of Service guy is not following my a** trying to fail my install and take away my pay.The amount paid does not include any wall fishes or anything like that. Drill straight out the wall and run the cable outside along house is what the dish company is paying for.If the customer wants to pay $$$ then he can hire me on an hourly basis just like any other trade.The customer however has "free" install on his mind so he gets what he pays for. One other thing dont put any ends on the cable because Ill more than likely just cut them off.Dish approved compression ends and connectors rated at 3ghz is what you need.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Electricians around here must not know about inter-system bonding because I have seen it less than 5 times in the last few years in new homes I have done.Dish Network only requires copper clad rg6 swept to 3ghz vextra V66 is what I use.You can get in dual cable also.Direct TV may require solid copper I dont know about them so you may just want to use the solid.Suppliers around here know if their cable is dish or direct approved. If they dont maybe they should find out for their customer (you guys)The dish installer is usually doing a "free" install.That means for most companies get the job done and working. Neatness is not a priority. Honestly I use what ever cable is in the wall as long as its RG6. Im independent so the Quality of Service guy is not following my a** trying to fail my install and take away my pay.The amount paid does not include any wall fishes or anything like that. Drill straight out the wall and run the cable outside along house is what the dish company is paying for.If the customer wants to pay $$$ then he can hire me on an hourly basis just like any other trade.The customer however has "free" install on his mind so he gets what he pays for. One other thing dont put any ends on the cable because Ill more than likely just cut them off.Dish approved compression ends and connectors rated at 3ghz is what you need.

I understand it is a "free install" in a lot of cases but I see so many pathetic installs that would not take much more effort to make them look a little nicer. Recently seen satellite guys run cable right up the front of a new house with minimal support on vinyl siding, on top of that this house was out in country with little wind shelter, guess what that cable will be doing on a windy winter day? Sad thing is if they just would have run it about 2-3 feet to the left of where it was they could have at least tucked it behind the J channel in the corner and concealed most of it:(
 
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