Switched receptacles and back-lit Decora switches

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goldstar

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New Jersey
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Is it acceptable to use back-lit (neon) switches to switch receptacles in a bedroom ? What ends up happening when you plug in a receptacle tester is one light lights solid and the other flickers as a result of feeding thru the neon bulb. Obviously the back-light feature in the switch won't be visible unless you have a lamp with a std. A-bulb installed. Just wondering what an EI would say.
 

infinity

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Is there a prohibition from the switch manufacturer to use that type of switch controlling a receptacle? I would think that the switch has been tested as part of it's listing with loads other than just A lamps. Interesting question. :)
 

goldstar

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Not sure. I did some work at a residence recently and the HO purchased all the devices. I found this out while testing.
 

infinity

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I've never seen one of those switches labelled that it was for A lamps only or some other restriction. I would think that as part of the design the type of load is irrelevant.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
What I don't like about backlit switches is that with the switch off, your circuit isn't actually deenergized. It's Ok if you know you're dealing with a lit toggle, but with backlit decorator switches you don't know until you turn it off, go to replace the light and get bit. :rant:
 

al hildenbrand

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Minnesota
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Is it acceptable to use back-lit (neon) switches to switch receptacles in a bedroom ?
The back-lit-while-off feature is, in the common bedroom, nothing more than a design consideration. While convenient to some, as a means of locating the switch, it does not support life safety through any regulatory language, so, whether the switch internal light source glows or not, the Code is silent, IMO.


A back-lit switch controlling a receptacle without a load plugged in is the same as a back-lit switch controlling a hardwired luminaire with the lamp(s) missing or burned open. The full voltage of the branch circuit is present on the energizable conductors downstream of the light when the conductor is without connected load, but the potential current flow is limited by the extremely high impedance of the switch's neon light.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
What I don't like about backlit switches is that with the switch off, your circuit isn't actually deenergized. It's Ok if you know you're dealing with a lit toggle, but with backlit decorator switches you don't know until you turn it off, go to replace the light and get bit. :rant:
That neon lamp has a high enough impedance you likely don't feel it's current draw in most cases.
 

goldstar

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New Jersey
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I've never seen one of those switches labelled that it was for A lamps only or some other restriction. I would think that as part of the design the type of load is irrelevant.
I really don't know for a fact that they work on A lamps only. I know some devices (like Intermatic timers - not the digital ones) are not reliable or will not read thru the xfmr inside a CFL. The way that back (neon) light works is if it's seeing the line voltage thru the the neon bulb.

I really don't see anything wrong with this set-up but I was just wondering if there might be an issue that I'm not aware of (I have a habit of not thinking out of the box). In my case I had a split duplex receptacle where the top receptacle was the one that was switched. If an unsuspecting home inspector or EI were to plug in his tester and find the scenario I described in my OP I'd be concerned that he'd fail the installation. Then I have to go thru all the trouble of explaining over the phone or writing letters, etc. all of which delay a job.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
when you plug in a receptacle tester is one light lights solid and the other flickers as a result of feeding thru the neon bulb.
Do you recall what the tester light combination (if both were lit) indicated and which lamp was flickering, and what its being off would mean?
 

goldstar

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New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
Do you recall what the tester light combination (if both were lit) indicated and which lamp was flickering, and what its being off would mean?
This was last week so from what I remember (my short term memory is on the fritz) one lamp was lit solid and the other flickered as a neon bulb would when the switch was in the off position
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
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Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
This was last week so from what I remember (my short term memory is on the fritz) one lamp was lit solid and the other flickered as a neon bulb would when the switch was in the off position
I presume one tester light was for the hot/neutral, and the other tester light was for the presence of the EGC. Which one flickered?

A flickering ground light may mean that the ground was low quality, and, in fact, not be related to the neon in the switch itself.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I presume one tester light was for the hot/neutral, and the other tester light was for the presence of the EGC. Which one flickered?

A flickering ground light may mean that the ground was low quality, and, in fact, not be related to the neon in the switch itself.
OK. Good point. I won't get back there until next week. I'll let you know what I find.
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
A hotel job I was on called for 2 lighted decor switches at each door times 80 rooms = a whole lot of decor lighted switches. Pain in the a$$.

You had to be really careful with them because if they got twisted, even slightly they would lose their internal connection for the backlight.

They always read 50V or so on the switchleg when off.

The best part was that the CFL lamp fixtures they ran would flash very slightly every minute or so.

We didn't have any receps behind the switches but it wouldn't surprise me if a tester read power when the switch was off. I wouldn't run anything but lamps with them.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
OK, here's the deal - I went back to finish up this project and used two different plug-in testers, both were made by Ideal. One used neon bulbs the other used LED's. When the neon tester was used with the switch in the off position one of the neons would glow dim but steady and the other flickered. When the switch was turned on both (correctly wired) lights illuminated bright. When I used the LED tester both green lights were off when the switch was off and on with the switch on.

So now all I have to worry about is whether an inspector uses an LED tester or a neon tester and whether he's knowledgable about this issue.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If the bulbs are CFL then that is the problem but I assume by standard A bulb you mean incandescent
Correct Dennis, a std. A-bulb. Just curious, what problem would you anticipate with a CFL other than the back-light feature of the switch possibly not working correctly ?
 

Dennis Alwon

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Chapel Hill, NC
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Retired Electrical Contractor
Correct Dennis, a std. A-bulb. Just curious, what problem would you anticipate with a CFL other than the back-light feature of the switch possibly not working correctly ?


Well it was a guess but we had issues with dimmers and cfl's in fan/lts. My brothers cfl's would never turn off. They installed one incandescent in the bunch - as I suggested- and voila- it went off.
 
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