NEUTRAL

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domnic

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Electrical Contractor
If i loose the neutral at the weather head on my house will i still have gfci protection in my bathroom ?
 

GoldDigger

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If i loose the neutral at the weather head on my house will i still have gfci protection in my bathroom ?
Yes but that will not protect your bathroom appliances etc. from being exposed to up to 240 volts. And perhaps the 120V rated GFCIs might fail at 240V.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
I will go with maybe.

Or maybe the GFCI receives an over-voltage smoking the electronics.

Or maybe the GFCI receives an under-voltage shutting down the electronics.


I think the right approach would be to tighten that neutral up. ;)
 

GoldDigger

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The last lost noodle I repaired smoked every gfi and afci breaker in the place. They did not have gfi recpts.

Which brings up the topic of the extent to which the GES bond at the main will provide some protection against the lost neutral. Answer: Usually not at all.... Only exception to that is if a common metal water system lets all of your neutral current go through your neighbors noodle.
 

ActionDave

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Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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Which brings up the topic of the extent to which the GES bond at the main will provide some protection against the lost neutral. Answer: Usually not at all.... Only exception to that is if a common metal water system lets all of your neutral current go through your neighbors noodle.
Yuppers. I think you are right. This was a cabin on its own well.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
The last lost noodle I repaired smoked every gfi and afci breaker in the place. They did not have gfi recpts.

Unless they where all on the same phase it would be odd for all them to get over voltage.

But a changing load in the home could swing which phase was high vs low.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Which brings up the topic of the extent to which the GES bond at the main will provide some protection against the lost neutral. Answer: Usually not at all.... Only exception to that is if a common metal water system lets all of your neutral current go through your neighbors noodle.

I do not even consider the GECs contribution, I just consider if the load was balanced on both hots or was it far out of balance.

That will change which leg runs high and which runs low relative to ground.
 

infinity

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New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
I agree with GoldDigger, if you have a city water system and the GEC connection is good you might not even notice if you lost the utility neutral.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
I agree with GoldDigger, if you have a city water system and the GEC connection is good you might not even notice if you lost the utility neutral.

I have seen it happen. I even have pics somewhere with the messenger laying on the roof and the triplex supported by the two hots. That was the result of a car hitting a pole. We did the service next door and while I was there I noticed the neighbor's triplex was busted, too. Neighbor didn't notice a thing.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
I agree with GoldDigger, if you have a city water system and the GEC connection is good you might not even notice if you lost the utility neutral.

That is an indisputable fact. :)

My point was that even without any GEC at all an open neutral can still go unnoticed if the loading is close to balanced.
 

GoldDigger

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Placerville, CA, USA
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Retired PV System Designer
That is an indisputable fact. :)

My point was that even without any GEC at all an open neutral can still go unnoticed if the loading is close to balanced.
Always keep your 240V heat strips or A/C running to minimize damage in the case of a lost neutral? :)
OOPS, that will not help if they do not have a neutral connection. :(
 

ActionDave

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Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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Unless they where all on the same phase it would be odd for all them to get over voltage.

But a changing load in the home could swing which phase was high vs low.
Kinda what happened. The owner's said things were acting up for a while. Then the plumber was changing the electric water heater. He turned the breaker off and things went haywire. It was a 120V WH.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Unless they where all on the same phase it would be odd for all them to get over voltage.

But a changing load in the home could swing which phase was high vs low.


It could happen if an appliance receiving the overvoltage short circuited from it. The other leg then receives 240 volts. Seen it on MWBC where the electronic control shorts smoking anything on the other leg.
 
If i loose the neutral at the weather head on my house will i still have gfci protection in my bathroom ?

I agree with most of the posts (240volt, possible smoking electronics), however, most non portable gfci's do not have 'open neutral protection, there fore your gfci will not work without the neutral.

You can have power coming from it and it will not tripped if there is a ground fault.
 
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