Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 55

Thread: 2017 NEC Pdf is available

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    33,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    So my interpretation is correct. That is an odd rule since I can install an outlet 5'6" with no counter and it is compliant...
    They don't want a 210.52 C outlet to also work as a 210.52 A outlet for some reason. Maybe was never the intention before but as was worded was legal.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,432
    Here is an incredibly beautiful image I drew of what I am referring to.

    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NE Nebraska
    Posts
    33,762
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Here is an incredibly beautiful image I drew of what I am referring to.

    That is what I thought you were describing. Don't know for certain if 210.52(A) requires an outlet there or not. I always put one there regardless. Section you referred to is 210.52(C), I think. If anything in 2017 "(C)" now says an outlet above that desk doesn't count as one that may be required below the desk.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    21,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I don't see that as changing anything. One says that a wall space that has a cabinet with a work space is considered wall space but the other seems to say that outlets install for the work space will not satisfy the requirement for the wall space outlets. That is what I was saying so I am missing your point.
    I agree there is a major flaw in the logic, but I'm currently looking at it like this:

    • 210.52(A)(2)(1) says walls spaces that have countertops and work surfaces are excluded from being counted as wall space for the purpose of 6' spacing.
    • All receptacles required by 210.52(C) are for countertops and work surfaces.
    • No receptacles are required per 210.52(A) above or below countertops and work surfaces. 210.52(C) continues to require receptacles to serve the countertops and work surfaces.

    In essence, 210.52(A)(4) is completely superfluous.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,432
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    I agree there is a major flaw in the logic, but I'm currently looking at it like this:

    • 210.52(A)(2)(1) says walls spaces that have countertops and work surfaces are excluded from being counted as wall space for the purpose of 6' spacing.
    • All receptacles required by 210.52(C) are for countertops and work surfaces.
    • No receptacles are required per 210.52(A) above or below countertops and work surfaces. 210.52(C) continues to require receptacles to serve the countertops and work surfaces.

    In essence, 210.52(A)(4) is completely superfluous.

    So I wonder if what they are saying is this.

    Picture a kitchen counter that ends 3' from a door. The required receptacle on the counter would not satisfy the requirement for one in the 3' of wall space even if that outlet was within 6' of the door. I think this was stated differently in 2014
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,432
    Interesting to note that if I have a den with nothing but cabinets and bookcases then I wouldn't need a receptacle in the room. I have always install them in the kick spaces of the cabinets but they are not required.

    The wording on this threw me but I think what I stated above is what this rewriting was about
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    21,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    So I wonder if what they are saying is this.

    Picture a kitchen counter that ends 3' from a door. The required receptacle on the counter would not satisfy the requirement for one in the 3' of wall space even if that outlet was within 6' of the door. I think this was stated differently in 2014
    The main difference I see is that work surfaces are included with countertops, whereas they were not in prior editions.

    In your example, you could not count the countertop receptacle as serving the 3' wall space even under 2014 NEC.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    The main difference I see is that work surfaces are included with countertops, whereas they were not in prior editions.

    In your example, you could not count the countertop receptacle as serving the 3' wall space even under 2014 NEC.

    Ok Then what would it be!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,432
    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    The main difference I see is that work surfaces are included with countertops, whereas they were not in prior editions.

    In your example, you could not count the countertop receptacle as serving the 3' wall space even under 2014 NEC.

    I understand that you can't do it even under the 2014 but I was wondering if they were trying to clarify it...Did a great job of it if that was their intent.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Posts
    4,916
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    I thought the NEC was not a design guide!
    It depends somewhat on the CMP. CMP14 was heavy into using Section 90.1(C). Those CMPs that are especially heavy into residential or light commercial are more likely to give design directives. A few unnamed aren't quite sure.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    Answers based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •