What will a arc fault br120 run without tripping?

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J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
I have read a few arc fault breaker post on here and was curious.

Today I rigged up a br 120 arc fault breaker to a regular recep, I plugged in a shop vac, a house vac, a table lamp and even hooked it to a ceiling fan motor.

Everything tripped immediately as soon a the device was turned on.

I was amazed and astounded at the level of protection supplied by the arc fault breaker. There is no way anything even could start a fire with one of those installed.....Well unless the candle you were using for lighting tipped over.

So what am I missing? Because as of I don't see myself ever installing one. Code or not.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I have read a few arc fault breaker post on here and was curious.

Today I rigged up a br 120 arc fault breaker to a regular recep, I plugged in a shop vac, a house vac, a table lamp and even hooked it to a ceiling fan motor.

Everything tripped immediately as soon a the device was turned on.

I was amazed and astounded at the level of protection supplied by the arc fault breaker. There is no way anything even could start a fire with one of those installed.....Well unless the candle you were using for lighting tipped over.

So what am I missing? Because as of I don't see myself ever installing one. Code or not.

It sounds like it was not wired correctly.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I agree with Bob. It sounds like a wiring issue. I have have installed 1000's of AFCI's and have had very few issues that were not somehow wiring related. Occasionally the customer will have an old vacuum or treadmill that will cause issues but not often.

If you are going to refuse to install a code require AFCI's you should refuse to install any wiring that requires them. You are asking to pay out big in a lawsuit.
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
Just used a 3 ft length of wire directly from the breaker to the recep.

Like I said I was just satisfying a curiosity of what the breaker would and wouldn't run.

I hooked the recep neutral to the arc fault and the pigtail to the neutral bar. Just like many a GFI breaker I have installed.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Today I rigged up a br 120 arc fault breaker to a regular recep, I plugged in a shop vac, a house vac, a table lamp and even hooked it to a ceiling fan motor.

Everything tripped immediately as soon a the device was turned on.


If you wired it up correctly where did you get the breaker you installed and what type is it?
(maybe you just have a bad breaker)


I was just working on a house with wiring from the 70s and they had a new service installed and the panel was moved so they had to install almost all arc fault breakers. Everything worked out except an old cooler from the 1950s. It tripped the arc fault but that can be expected.

Arc faults are installed in homes with 40 year old wiring and work. That should tell you something.
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
Locke supply. CH BR 20A arc fault. Not sure on the part number. Maybe I got a odd one.

Wiring it wrong would be pretty tough. It was basically a jumper out of a panel. I literally took the dead front off and hooked it directly up to a recep.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Locke supply. CH BR 20A arc fault. Not sure on the part number. Maybe I got a odd one.

Wiring it wrong would be pretty tough. It was basically a jumper out of a panel. I literally took the dead front off and hooked it directly up to a recep.

What about the neutral?
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Does the breaker have a diagnostic to show whether it was a GF or AF trip?
Even with the neutral wired correctly to the breaker an accidental ground to neutral connection will cause a GF trip under load.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have read a few arc fault breaker post on here and was curious.

Today I rigged up a br 120 arc fault breaker to a regular recep, I plugged in a shop vac, a house vac, a table lamp and even hooked it to a ceiling fan motor.

Everything tripped immediately as soon a the device was turned on.

I was amazed and astounded at the level of protection supplied by the arc fault breaker. There is no way anything even could start a fire with one of those installed.....Well unless the candle you were using for lighting tipped over.

So what am I missing? Because as of I don't see myself ever installing one. Code or not.
Though I am not sold on AFCI's either, you still should not have that much trouble with that variety of loads. The two vacuum motors I could see higher potential of problems, but the lamp and most ceiling fan motors shouldn't have much chance of tripping it unless they truly have problems.
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
What about the neutral?



Like I said the neutral is hooked to the breaker. The breakers pigtail is hooked to the neutral bar.....


There is no diagnostic window that I saw, just a little yellow test button button.


I'm going to take it back and try a different one of the same type and any other type they have.
I want to install the most problem free ones I can find.

Is there a brand/type that you guys have found to be less prone to nuisance tripping? I do't do very much residential so I don't have any experience with these.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Like I said the neutral is hooked to the breaker. The breakers pigtail is hooked to the neutral bar.....


There is no diagnostic window that I saw, just a little yellow test button button.


I'm going to take it back and try a different one of the same type and any other type they have.
I want to install the most problem free ones I can find.

Is there a brand/type that you guys have found to be less prone to nuisance tripping? I do't do very much residential so I don't have any experience with these.
You don't really get to choose which brand to install unless you are also installing the panel they will go in. Most of the 1 inch wide breakers will fit any other panel that accepts 1 inch wide breakers but are not listed in the instructions to go in just any panel. But then you have a few that are more unique like the QO and CH series - nothing else fits them unless specifically made to fit them.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
the Eaton docs from their site for these breakers talk about what types of motors they work with and do make note that noisy motors can cause issues for the breakers. the docs also talk about shared neutral (and other wiring issues) which is a no-no for single pole AF. is the breaker the older long body or the newer compact design ?? i am wondering if you lift the load neutral panel side how much stuff goes dark? just be careful because lifting the neutral can leave it having 120v on it, etc.

post #12 is a warning, use only the brand of breaker that is for your brand panel. warranty and liability is gone when you, as example, put a Siemens breaker into a Eaton panel. is the breaker a CH or BR ?? they dont make "CH BR" breakers.

a pic of what you have will be extremely useful here.
 
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don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
the Eaton docs from their site for these breakers talk about what types of motors they work with and do make note that noisy motors can cause issues for the breakers. ....
I'm sorry, but that should not be the end users problem...that should be the AFCI manufacturer's problem. If they can't make a device that does not have issues with things like that then they should not be making the device.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
the Eaton docs from their site for these breakers talk about what types of motors they work with and do make note that noisy motors can cause issues for the breakers. the docs also talk about shared neutral (and other wiring issues) which is a no-no for single pole AF. is the breaker the older long body or the newer compact design ?? i am wondering if you lift the load neutral panel side how much stuff goes dark? just be careful because lifting the neutral can leave it having 120v on it, etc.

post #12 is a warning, use only the brand of breaker that is for your brand panel. warranty and liability is gone when you, as example, put a Siemens breaker into a Eaton panel. is the breaker a CH or BR ?? they dont make "CH BR" breakers.

a pic of what you have will be extremely useful here.
View attachment 10586
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
I have read a few arc fault breaker post on here and was curious.

Today I rigged up a br 120 arc fault breaker to a regular recep, I plugged in a shop vac, a house vac, a table lamp and even hooked it to a ceiling fan motor.

Everything tripped immediately as soon a the device was turned on.

I was amazed and astounded at the level of protection supplied by the arc fault breaker. There is no way anything even could start a fire with one of those installed.....Well unless the candle you were using for lighting tipped over.

So what am I missing? Because as of I don't see myself ever installing one. Code or not.


Where all these devices on all at once? That will trip one fast.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
CH BR is Cutler Hammer's BR style breaker.

hmmm, ...... what?

CH and BR style are completely different, and, they came from different manufactures at the time, now both part of Eaton.

@OP, does the BRAF trip when you turn on one item at a time? i suspect its still not normal for BRAF to trip even with those few items all "on" the same circuit and i would expect the breaker would trip but overload and not AF, and i have had plenty of things "on" one circuit during power outage and when power came back on the breaker (std breaker) did not trip.

beyond that the BRAF is either bad or you might have some bad/odd wiring there.
 
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