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Thread: LED lamps in an MRI room

  1. #1
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    LED lamps in an MRI room

    I have a customer that wants to upgrade their existing incandescent light fixtures in an MRI room to LED. Dedicated LED fixtures are $400.00+ per fixture, so quite costly. Has anybody used LED lamps to replace the incandescent lamps? Does it work OK? Is there an approved LED lamp for use in an MRI. We would be replacing 65 watt R lamps.
    Randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodduder View Post
    I have a customer that wants to upgrade their existing incandescent light fixtures in an MRI room to LED. Dedicated LED fixtures are $400.00+ per fixture, so quite costly. Has anybody used LED lamps to replace the incandescent lamps? Does it work OK? Is there an approved LED lamp for use in an MRI. We would be replacing 65 watt R lamps.
    The LED's have an electronic ballast in them. I would wonder what the local magnetic fields from the MRI might do to the new lamps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodduder View Post
    I have a customer that wants to upgrade their existing incandescent light fixtures in an MRI room to LED. Dedicated LED fixtures are $400.00+ per fixture, so quite costly. Has anybody used LED lamps to replace the incandescent lamps? Does it work OK? Is there an approved LED lamp for use in an MRI. We would be replacing 65 watt R lamps.
    They seem to make them.

    http://www.kenall.com/Kenall-Files/P...ll_MRI_PSG.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodduder View Post
    I have a customer that wants to upgrade their existing incandescent light fixtures in an MRI room to LED. Dedicated LED fixtures are $400.00+ per fixture, so quite costly. Has anybody used LED lamps to replace the incandescent lamps? Does it work OK? Is there an approved LED lamp for use in an MRI. We would be replacing 65 watt R lamps.
    MRI time costs thousands per hour, I would sell them $400 fixtures all day long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkidd View Post
    Yes they make dedicated LED fixtures for MRI's, that is a fact, but the driver (which is large enough to run several fixtures) has to remain outside of the magnet room and an RF filter installed. I was hoping for an easy screw in lamp solution.
    Randy

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    MRI time costs thousands per hour, I would sell them $400 fixtures all day long.
    +1
    You make the lights come on and we make them go off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    The LED's have an electronic ballast in them. I would wonder what the local magnetic fields from the MRI might do to the new lamps.
    That is not a problem.

    I would worry much more about what the RF emissions from the LEDs would do to the very sensitive electronics of the MRI equipment.
    CT scanners use radiation and electronic radiation detectors to do their imaging. The radiation detectors are not particularly sensitive to RF and can be pretty easily shielded.

    MRI machines, OTOH, detect very low intensity RF emitted and absorbed differently by atoms immersed in a strong magnetic field. Any RF emission near the machine, whether from the drivers or from the LEDs themselves cannot be tolerated by the MRI equipment. Think of the MRI machine as combining a radio transmitter and a sensitive radio receiver (with directional antennas) with a strong and variable magnetic field.

    That is why the purpose-built LED fixtures for MRI environments use remotely mounted drivers and EMI filters between the drivers and the LEDs to minimize RF emission in the MRI room.
    The emissions from standard screw-in replacements vary enormously from brand to brand and model to model. Even if you could find low-emission bulbs that would be acceptable, there is no guarantee that the same identical bulbs with the same RF specifications will be available in the future.

    This is a highly specialized area, and I would not recommend relying on shirt pocket engineering by an electrician or even an ordinary lighting designer.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    That is not a problem.

    I would worry much more about what the RF emissions from the LEDs would do to the very sensitive electronics of the MRI equipment.
    CT scanners use radiation and electronic radiation detectors to do their imaging. The radiation detectors are not particularly sensitive to RF and can be pretty easily shielded.

    MRI machines, OTOH, detect very low intensity RF emitted and absorbed differently by atoms immersed in a strong magnetic field. Any RF emission near the machine, whether from the drivers or from the LEDs themselves cannot be tolerated by the MRI equipment. Think of the MRI machine as combining a radio transmitter and a sensitive radio receiver (with directional antennas) with a strong and variable magnetic field.

    That is why the purpose-built LED fixtures for MRI environments use remotely mounted drivers and EMI filters between the drivers and the LEDs to minimize RF emission in the MRI room.
    The emissions from standard screw-in replacements vary enormously from brand to brand and model to model. Even if you could find low-emission bulbs that would be acceptable, there is no guarantee that the same identical bulbs with the same RF specifications will be available in the future.

    This is a highly specialized area, and I would not recommend relying on shirt pocket engineering by an electrician or even an ordinary lighting designer.
    Exactly. If you look at the ones Kennal makes for a MRI room, you will notice they are DC. The DC power can make it through the RF filter as it passes into the room, and it won't interfere with the imaging. Even the older incandescent MRI fixtures are usually supplied with DC power, even if it used a standard AC incandescent lamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve66 View Post
    Exactly. If you look at the ones Kennal makes for a MRI room, you will notice they are DC. The DC power can make it through the RF filter as it passes into the room, and it won't interfere with the imaging. Even the older incandescent MRI fixtures are usually supplied with DC power, even if it used a standard AC incandescent lamp.

    Ordinary incandescent lights will not emit RF, but they can produce a large enough magnetic field from the filament to be a problem IF that field is varying.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    That is not a problem.

    I would worry much more about what the RF emissions from the LEDs would do to the very sensitive electronics of the MRI equipment.
    CT scanners use radiation and electronic radiation detectors to do their imaging. The radiation detectors are not particularly sensitive to RF and can be pretty easily shielded.

    MRI machines, OTOH, detect very low intensity RF emitted and absorbed differently by atoms immersed in a strong magnetic field. Any RF emission near the machine, whether from the drivers or from the LEDs themselves cannot be tolerated by the MRI equipment. Think of the MRI machine as combining a radio transmitter and a sensitive radio receiver (with directional antennas) with a strong and variable magnetic field.

    That is why the purpose-built LED fixtures for MRI environments use remotely mounted drivers and EMI filters between the drivers and the LEDs to minimize RF emission in the MRI room.
    The emissions from standard screw-in replacements vary enormously from brand to brand and model to model. Even if you could find low-emission bulbs that would be acceptable, there is no guarantee that the same identical bulbs with the same RF specifications will be available in the future.

    This is a highly specialized area, and I would not recommend relying on shirt pocket engineering by an electrician or even an ordinary lighting designer.
    I think I will have them call the GE rep that sold the MRI so he can discuss with them. I'll let him tell them what they need to have. Thanks for the replies.
    Randy

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