Wiring an outside bar

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Danw2481

Member
Location
Nj
It needs lights and outlets.. I was gonna run two circuits so the outlet is dedicated.. Can I pull a 3 wire and share the nuetral? Or should I pull two seperate 12-2s?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
As long as you abide by the 210.4 rules (simultaneous disconnect, etc) you can use a mwbc.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Only if this "Bar" is considered a separate structure. If it is on a patio considered a part of the main structure, 225 doesn't apply at all.

When one reads 225.1 that may well be debatable.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
When one reads 225.1 that may well be debatable.

The separate structure issue is in part II of art 225 though, part I could apply to this outside bar and it still be a part of the main structure it is associated with. Could be on the roof of a building and part I applies but not part II.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
So another words all outside BBQ islands are separate structures and need a local disconnect.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
So another words all outside BBQ islands are separate structures and need a local disconnect.
I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Some may be separate structures but not all.

I do realize code is not very specific on what is a separate structure in some cases, if it is on a patio that effectively is an extension of the main structure - I think it is not a separate structure. If it is all alone out in the middle of the yard - probably a separate structure.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
It needs lights and outlets.. I was gonna run two circuits so the outlet is dedicated.. Can I pull a 3 wire and share the nuetral? Or should I pull two seperate 12-2s?
I would share neutral with little hesitation unless there were going to be some giant sized, industrial blender at the bar. Then I would still run a MWBC and add a dedicated circuit for the blender.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
What's mwbc?

Multi wire branch circuit.

more than one ungrounded conductor with only one grounded conductor. Typically two hots and one neutral that you install for the garbage disposer and the dishwasher is MWBC.

From NEC 2011

Branch Circuit, Multiwire. A branch circuit that consists
of two or more ungrounded conductors that have a voltage
between them, and a grounded conductor that has equal
voltage between it and each ungrounded conductor of the
circuit and that is connected to the neutral or grounded conductor
of the system.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Umm....are you an Electrician? meaning nothing by it....Just Inquiring is all.
I wouldn't be too hard on anyone over an acronym that is more of an acronym for electronic communications purposes then it is an acronym for the trade.

I still run into some I can't figure out at times.
 

Danw2481

Member
Location
Nj
Masterthenec, yes I am. Licensed as well. I'm sorry for not knowing acronyms, are acronyms used in the nec?

@kwired.. Thank you.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Masterthenec, yes I am. Licensed as well. I'm sorry for not knowing acronyms, are acronyms used in the nec?
No, they are not generally used in the NEC. But they are often used by people who use the NEC and hate to type.
The other related common acronym is Small Appliance Branch Circuit (SABC).
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Masterthenec, yes I am. Licensed as well. I'm sorry for not knowing acronyms, are acronyms used in the nec?

@kwired.. Thank you.

No apology necessary... been doing this 'lectris stuff for 5 decades and still learn something here quite often. Don't let a "master" discourage you... stay with us and you might get to return the favor (provided you are not too polite top do so)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
are acronyms used in the nec?

There may be more then some may think, especially in the raceway and cable areas:

EMT, ENT, FMT, IMC, RMC, FMC, LFMC, LFNC, HDPE, NUCC, RTRC, NM (cable), UF (cable), MC (cable), AC (cable), MI (cable), SE (cable), USE, PVC, TC (tray cable), IGS, (integrated gas spacer cable) FCC (flat conductor cable), FC (flat cable assemblies), MV (medium voltage cable), many conductor insulation types are acronyms examples THW, THHN, XHHW...

Others : GFCI, AFCI, AHJ, HID, ANSI, UL, EGC, PV, SPD,

There likely is more.
 
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