AFCI / GFCI kitchen confusion

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mikewillnot

Member
Location
Rochester, NY
Occupation
electrical contractor
My apologies if this is too big a question, but I?m a tiny bit confused at this point. My jurisdiction is holding onto 2008 by its fingernails, but they?re likely to change soon, my guess is to 2011. Now 2014 is out there though, with new AFCI requirements etc.

My customer has an old house with a recent panel replacement and a new QO140M200C (not plug-on neutral) panel. We are rewiring the kitchen and some adjacent area wiring (not gutting; fishing, etc), with all new home-runs. My tentative new circuit layout is:


  1. Refrigerator ? 20amp dedicated BC
  2. Microwave (countertop) ? 20 amp dedicated BC
  3. Countertop BC 1 ? 20 amp, probably two duplex
  4. Countertop BC 2 ? 20 amp, probably two duplex
  5. 15-amp circuit for


  • [*=1]Gas stove (wall receptacle)
    [*=1]kitchen/ette convenience wall receptacle (not counter)
    [*=1]pantry convenience wall receptacle (not counter)
    [*=1]hallway ceiling light / wall switch
    [*=1]kitchen ceiling light/fan / wall switch
    [*=1]porch light / wall switch

NO disposal or dishwasher, but hypothetically, if there were:
[6. Disposal & dishwasher]

The confusion: sorting out the AFCI & GFCI requirements, with 2008 v 2011 v 2014 codes.
The plan: I?m contemplating putting all 5 on Dual Function AFCI/GFCI breakers, with standard TR receptacles thereafter. There may be a better i.e. cheaper way to skin the cat, but I don?t think this customer will mind being ahead of the curve for once, and I think it would satisfy any version of the code.

And for the record, I?m also considering increasing #5 to 20amps, although fishing, switches and all are easier with 14ga.

[I?m still, or once again, unclear on the requirement for 6, where the significant motor loads are. I have preferred the plug/cord under the sink method, with the disposal half switched either under the sink or above on the wall. I suppose I could just put that on a CAFCI/GFCI breaker as well, but that?s another issue.]
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The 2008 NEC req. afci in basic living areas excluding Kitchen, laundry unfinished basements and bath areas. The 2011 is pretty much the same however the 2014 will require afci in the kitchens as well as laundry but not the bath. The dishwasher will also require afci as well as gfci along with the refrigerator if the refrigerator is within 6' of the sink. The disposal does not need gfci protection

Not every brand has a dual afci/gfci breaker and I bet they are pricey. They do sell afci receptacles now but if I were doing it I would use a dead front gfci on an afci circuit. Put the dead front under the sink for the dishwasher. This could also be the disconnect
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
Maybe it is just me but I am not exactly clear on what you are asking. However, just an observation:

I would place the gas stove ignition receptacle, pantry receptacle on one of the SABC's you are already providing.

Dennis pretty much covered the other areas of concern except I might add that if you choose to cord and plug the disposal and that receptacle it's within 6' of the sink it will need to be GFCI protected as well.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
It is my understanding that a cord & plug connected disposal or dishwasher (to a receptacle inside a sink cabinet and not readily accessible) doesn't require GFI protection. But that doesn't mean I'm right. Anyway, this article might help you in determining when and where you might need AFCI protection, depending on the Code cycle you're in :

http://www.pceca.net/images/stories/evolution_of_arc_fault_in_the_nec.pdf
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
It is my understanding that a cord & plug connected disposal or dishwasher (to a receptacle inside a sink cabinet and not readily accessible) doesn't require GFI protection.


2014 NEC-- I would disagree with you on this. Outlet does not mean receptacle

210.8(D) Kitchen Dishwasher Branch Circuit. GFCI protection
shall be provided for outlets that supply dishwashers
installed in dwelling unit locations
 

jumper

Senior Member
  1. 15-amp circuit for


  • [*=1]Gas stove (wall receptacle)
    [*=1]kitchen/ette convenience wall receptacle (not counter)
    [*=1]pantry convenience wall receptacle (not counter)

    [*=1]hallway ceiling light / wall switch
    [*=1]kitchen ceiling light/fan / wall switch
    [*=1]porch light / wall switch
And for the record, I?m also considering increasing #5 to 20amps, although fishing, switches and all are easier with 14ga.

Pretty sure those receptacles make this a SABC, which means those lights cannot be on this circuit, but the gas stove can. SABCs gotta be 20A.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
2014 NEC-- I would disagree with you on this. Outlet does not mean receptacle
Granted. But you're talking about the 2014 NEC and the OP says he's still on 2008 and possibly going to the 2011. IMHO bulleted item # 3 under the 2008 NEC (as listed below) is a stretch if you're considering a receptacle or outlet (inside a sink cabinet and not readily accessible) to be required to be GFI protected. That's taken care of in the 2011 NEC as I see it.

2008 NEC
? 210.8(A)(2) & (A)(5): Expanded GFCI protection requirements by deleting exceptions for receptacles that are not readily
accessible and receptacles located in dedicated spaces to supply an appliance.
? 210.8(B)(4): Expanded GFCI protection requirements to include all outdoor 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt receptacles, and
added a conditional exception to permit use of assured equipment grounding conductor program in industrial establishments.
? 210.8(B)(5): Added GFCI protection requirements for all 15- and 20-ampere 125-volt receptacles installed within 6 ft of the
outside edge of sinks,
and added exceptions for receptacles in industrial laboratories where the loss of power would introduce a
greater hazard and for receptacles in patient care areas where critical care equipment may be utilized.

2011 NEC
? 210.8 Readily Accessible GFCI?s
? 210.8(A) GFCI Protection of Receptacles near sinks in dwellings

? 210.8(B)(5) Exception #2 to (5) GFCI Protection of receptacles near sinks in health care facilities
? 210.8(B)(6) GFCI protection of indoor wet location receptacles
? 210.8(B)(7) GFCI protection of receptacles in locker rooms
? 210.8(B)(8) GFCI protection of receptacles in commercial garages

2014 NEC
? 210.8 (A)(9) Bathtubs
? 210.8 (A)(10) Laundry
? 210.8 (D) Dishwashers
? 422.51 Vending Machines
? 422.23 Tire Inflation Equipment
? 445.20 Portable Generators
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
It is my understanding that a cord & plug connected disposal or dishwasher (to a receptacle inside a sink cabinet and not readily accessible) doesn't require GFI protection. But that doesn't mean I'm right. Anyway, this article might help you in determining when and where you might need AFCI protection, depending on the Code cycle you're in :

http://www.pceca.net/images/stories/evolution_of_arc_fault_in_the_nec.pdf


Being readily accessible just means the GFCI device can't be there...the receptacle (2014 NEC) would require GFCI protection if within 6' of the sink. Which gives us other places as you know to place that readily accessible GFCI device:)
 

JDB3

Senior Member
All of this certainty adds to the cost, but safety comes first (just hope manufactures do not push these things because of $$$$$$$$$).
Along with dishwasher being on AFCI & GFCI, a plumber that I know & respect saw a dishwasher on fire (that had been disconnected & sitting outside of the house for close to a year). HOW could any of the wiring updates have prevented this? :? :happysad:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
All of this certainty adds to the cost, but safety comes first (just hope manufactures do not push these things because of $$$$$$$$$).
Along with dishwasher being on AFCI & GFCI, a plumber that I know & respect saw a dishwasher on fire (that had been disconnected & sitting outside of the house for close to a year). HOW could any of the wiring updates have prevented this? :? :happysad:


The fact that the dishwasher caught fire and wasn't wired up has nothing to do with this matter. There are many factors that could have caused that but none electrical. "Mom's coming, quick throw the cigarette in here."
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
The 2008 NEC req. afci in basic living areas excluding Kitchen, laundry unfinished basements and bath areas. The 2011 is pretty much the same however the 2014 will require afci in the kitchens as well as laundry but not the bath. The dishwasher will also require afci as well as gfci along with the refrigerator if the refrigerator is within 6' of the sink. The disposal does not need gfci protection

Not every brand has a dual afci/gfci breaker and I bet they are pricey. They do sell afci receptacles now but if I were doing it I would use a dead front gfci on an afci circuit. Put the dead front under the sink for the dishwasher. This could also be the disconnect

Disagree. A test button is not a disconnect means.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Disagree. A test button is not a disconnect means.
Also, any subtle difference in the position of the reset button does not IMO count as an indication of whether the "disconnect" is open or closed.
Even if you label the test button as "Off" and the reset button as "On". :)
1. The test button may fail to open the GFCI.
2. If the power is off to the GFCI, you can push the test button all you want, but the GFCI can still be closed when the power is turned back on.
 
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