View Poll Results: Please select all complaints you have received about resident LED work

Voters
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  • Dimming - does not dim smoothly across entire range

    7 36.84%
  • Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting

    6 31.58%
  • Dimming - shimmer, flicker, and such despite using proper dimmer

    10 52.63%
  • Dimming - excess ballast buzz when dimmed

    6 31.58%
  • Dimming - color doesn't mimic incandescent closely enough

    3 15.79%
  • Buzzing ballast - without dimming

    1 5.26%
  • Light color uneven between fixtures

    1 5.26%
  • Just don't like the color

    6 31.58%
  • something else

    4 21.05%
  • NEVER had LED complaints

    4 21.05%
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Thread: Residential LED installs, client concerns

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Residential LED installs, client concerns

    Have you had call backs about them?
    What is your most common callbacks involving LED installs?

    It is my understanding that most residential LED work complications stems from some form of dissatisfaction related to dimming. I am trying to get a better understanding of it what you guys run into and welcome your comments.

    Running some tests with random products, I can not say that they fail to conform to specifications but I am coming across products with what I personally feel is excess noise from the ballast when dimmed using proper dimming controls.
    Last edited by Electric-Light; 02-02-17 at 02:01 AM.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2009
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    I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

    I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    NW Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

    I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
    Me too.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Preset dimmer is meant to let you turn the light off, then back on at the last used setting. Even using a Lutron C-L dimmer, I have observed some dimmable LED products fail to power up at all from the last state.

    It requires raising up far enough to make it turn on and dimming back down to preserve deep dimming or block off deep dimming by raising trim adjustments high enough where it will start reliably each time at 114v input voltage with the slider all the way at the bottom or you risk "it doesn't turn on with the switch" complaint and may experience a blow out from routine minor surge or noise from appliances or switching off motor loads. Some dimmable LEDs are very sensitive to surge and malfunction even when not using a dimmer switch. The original CREE bulb with fins along the bottom and glass globe actually shuts off and turns back on from surge created from shutting off a fan.

    I am also reporting that I do not experience this problem with two wire dimmable T8 ballast using a dimmer made for this purpose. It starts up fine even at the lowest setting. Every time. Just as LEDs essentially require LED rated dimmer to be able to use the entire slider movement range.
    Last edited by Electric-Light; 02-02-17 at 07:30 PM.

  5. #5
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    Jun 2003
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    NE (9.1 miles @5.07 Degrees from Winged Horses)
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    The only dimming problem I had was a mismatch between fixture and dimmer brand. It was for my personal use and didn't need the dimmer anyway so I returned it. We don't do a lot of residential let alone dimming LEDs in them. Occasional call back for early failure but we replace immediately. One outdoor fixture failed about two years into a five year warranty. Supplier replaced it. Overall I have been very happy with the products we deal with.

    (The dimmer system we used in a school gym was and is great. Works well past my expectations)
    Tom
    TBLO

  6. #6
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptonsparky View Post
    (The dimmer system we used in a school gym was and is great. Works well past my expectations)
    Dimming systems that use control wire(s) have always been stable. The vast majority dimming difficulties are in residential installs due to the continuing use of in-line dimming. This type of dimming is not used in a large scale for commercial system, because it causes a lot of harmonics and has a poor PF.

    Dimming by a means of external control improves dimming stability, avoids power quality issues or increase in ballast buzz.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionDave View Post
    I don't have any customer call back complaints but I picked Dimming - does not turn on at lowest setting even though that it was not exactly true.

    I put some dimmable LEDs in at my own house and the only thing I don't like about them is the dim-ability at the low end. I only care a little to nothing about how dim they are when I turn them on, I care a lot about how low I can dim them down and the current crop goes dead before I get them as dim as I like.
    so, you have a problem with being a dim bulb in your own house? hmmmm....

    truth is, unless you are running 0-10 V. dimming controls, i've never seen any
    that will fire at the lowest level they are capable of sustaining without flickering.

    i shoulda bought 0-10's for my own house. a dim bulb in my own house as well.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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    Funny, I had him pegged as a "drop $20 a week into LED lamps to beat them with a hammer" type of guy...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Valdosta, GA
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    3,646
    Dimmers...... always.

    I use mostly the Lutron my supplier carries. So far it seems to be solved by using at least a 3.0 date code model.

    I've had zero callbacks on residential LED trims failing over the last 2-3 years.

    I would guess we've installed 2-3k LED recessed trims in commercial installs over the last 5 years, and I can think of only a handful of times one has failed. Typically if they're bad, it will fail out of the box.

    I've had more problems out of the Cree lay-in fixtures than recessed (which really isn't that much) and even more so out of the outdoor LED facade lighting and wallpacks; likely due to moisture.


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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NW Ohio
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    813
    Those of you which marked " didn't like the color " what K temp did you install and did the customer want something that resembles incandescent?

    I prefer 2700K for much of my work although I do get a few people that think 4-5 K is brighter.
    Bah-hum-bug. As far as residential goes. Still commercial I like 3500-4000 K
    Last edited by mopowr steve; 02-03-17 at 09:39 PM.

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