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Thread: How can I warm up the LED can light tone in my office?

  1. #1
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    How can I warm up the LED can light tone in my office?

    Our office building is in the process of switching over to all-LED lighting. Our recessed can lights were recently swapped and it's causing a lot of grief- will we just get used to it over time or can I buy some warming filters that won't melt or look like yellow/orange/red dots all over our ceiling? I have only found theatrical lighting sources online so far. Help!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by liezljayne View Post
    Our office building is in the process of switching over to all-LED lighting. Our recessed can lights were recently swapped and it's causing a lot of grief- will we just get used to it over time or can I buy some warming filters that won't melt or look like yellow/orange/red dots all over our ceiling? I have only found theatrical lighting sources online so far. Help!
    selecting the color temperature of the lights at the time of purchase
    is really your only solution. 3000K is what most people prefer.

    however, 5000K lighting usually has better numbers with regards
    to efficiency, and is often selected by people who don't have to
    sit underneath them.

    if "in the process" means the building is being done by a building
    manager, and you are tenants, screaming loud and long IMMEDIATELY
    might get the lights changed out to 3000K, and the offending luminaries
    could used elsewhere in the building.

    there are LED lamps which can have color temperature changed as a
    selectable function, but i'm guessing those are nowhere in your building.
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    FWIW, I agree with Fulthrotl. I like 2700K to 3000k in my house and while I don't have LED and CFL right next to each other they appear similar as you move from room to room. For the most part I have Sylvania lamps. I like the K rating on the lamps and it seems to be fairly consistent for the few mfgs I have used. I notice some are using the Warm, Soft or Daylight. I didn't like those comparisons for any other lamp, I doubt LED will be any better.
    Tom
    TBLO

  4. #4
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    Color Selectable Standard Option Now

    FYI, Cooper just released a Color selectable recessed LED for Halo Commercial. It changes the color temperature based upon dip switches adjacent to the housing. It does come standard and it looks like this will be more commonplace in the near future. http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont..._halo!led.html

  5. #5
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    I assume the new cans are led fixtures not cans with a screw in lamp. If you can't change the lamp then change the fixture, check on dimer compatibility or live with it. Find out what Kelvin these are first. Sales people are selling 5000K and even 6500K in office settings and it's causing problems for many. Read a bit about blue light(5000K or above) sleeping problems and about retina problems. 4000K and below are better choices for offices.

  6. #6
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    If you can find them, I consider 3500K to be the best light color temperature for most non-residential purposes.
    It is slightly warm, but does not have the distinct yellow red tinge that lower color temperatures (all the way down to 2500 and below) have.
    That CCT is not the most common for linear fluorescents, but is available. Not nearly as common in non-adjustable LEDs.

  7. #7
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    Solid state LED fluorescent lamps have 450 nm blue LED junctions buried under RTV like fluorescent phosphor goop. This is the way with the exception of a few unusual models. The Cooper one uses multiple sets of LEDs with each set utilizing different phosphors. The reported LM/W on 3500K setting is higher than 3000K or 4000K so the 3500K setting likely spreads the power across the most LED elements.

    When you compare different CCT color options for the same product line, the higher K temperature usually comes with somewhat higher lm/W (or more lumens with same wattage). So perhaps this is why whiter ones were chosen.

    2700K and 5000K are the most common types. 3000, 3500 and 4000k are available for some products, but not common. 2700 and 3000 are likely to get the least objections when they're expected to look like light bulbs. 3500 and 4000K is more fitting of where they're expecting stereotypical "fluorescent light" color. There's no common definition for types(warm, bright, neutral, and such) of white, so always check the actual kelvin temp.

    Regular light bulbs in lower wattage are close to 2700K. Higher wattage ones and halogen are around 3000k.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tw1156 View Post
    FYI, Cooper just released a Color selectable recessed LED for Halo Commercial. It changes the color temperature based upon dip switches adjacent to the housing. It does come standard and it looks like this will be more commonplace in the near future. http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont..._halo!led.html

    that is interesting.

    my first thought was it's not title 20 listed in calif...
    but... the cut sheet says it is....

    "Can be used to comply with California Title 24
    NonResidential Lighting Controls requirements
    as a LED Luminaire."

    at first, i thought you could select the lumens as well
    as the color temperature, but upon reading, that doesn't
    seem to be the case.

    where it craps out is in the CRI. a CRI of 90 or better is
    industry standard, and it lists theirs at 80.

    "Color point accuracy within 3 SDCM and 80 CRI minimum
    provides color quality and uniformity".

    i've got a light meter that gives most all of the characteristics
    of the light. full spectrographic analysis. and most of those
    90+ CRI lights.... well, it's like stereo manufacturers listings
    of their amplifiers statistics.....

    they come in at 85 or so.
    i'll bet in real life, this light is somewhere in the 70's.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fulthrotl View Post
    that is interesting.

    my first thought was it's not title 20 listed in calif...
    but... the cut sheet says it is....

    "Can be used to comply with California Title 24
    NonResidential Lighting Controls requirements
    as a LED Luminaire."

    at first, i thought you could select the lumens as well
    as the color temperature, but upon reading, that doesn't
    seem to be the case.

    where it craps out is in the CRI. a CRI of 90 or better is
    industry standard
    , and it lists theirs at 80.

    "Color point accuracy within 3 SDCM and 80 CRI minimum
    provides color quality and uniformity".
    RESIDENTIAL interior must meet all three of these. If any one of them is not met, it is not Title 24 compliant.
    CCT between 2700 and 4000K
    CRI >90
    The efficacy requirement is surprisingly low. 45lm/W for 5W-15W or 60 lm/W for 15W-40w and this is before allowance for 30% permanent LED degradation allowance. I think the high CRI requirement is to minimize the use of incandescent, because T24 does allow them installed alongside.
    is it common in CA to install more LED wattage than needed so they never see full setting in real use to create make allowance for incandescent? There's no limitation on watts/sq.ft and you can install incandescent lamps but you can only match the wattage of high efficacy luminaires + plus a 50w or 100w additional allowance under some conditions.

    LEDs still do not render brightened white correctly due to their inability to make output shorter than the 450nm blue LED used. There is also a distinctive gap between blue and green in emerald/turquoise region that only LEDs have trouble rendering. I believe the 90+ CRI uses a different phosphor blend that extends the emissions further into deep red. Our eyes are less sensitive to this region so while it helps with rendering vibrant red, it is not without a compromise of 15-20% lm/w.

    i've got a light meter that gives most all of the characteristics
    of the light. full spectrographic analysis. and most of those
    90+ CRI lights.... well, it's like stereo manufacturers listings
    of their amplifiers statistics.....

    they come in at 85 or so.
    i'll bet in real life, this light is somewhere in the 70's.
    What's the model? If it's the one used by LEDs Magazine, they're designed for portability and cost over accuracy and they're actually only designed to give accurate results for incandescent and standard lighting solid state fluorescent type LED lights. The grating on those do not have high enough resolution to give accurate results for narrow spikes found in trichromatic lamps like triphosphor fluorescent and uncommon RGB LED lights.

    Can you share the difference in spectrum between 90+ vs 80+ lights? I am curious.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric-Light View Post
    What's the model? If it's the one used by LEDs Magazine, they're designed for portability and cost over accuracy and they're actually only designed to give accurate results for incandescent and standard lighting solid state fluorescent type LED lights. The grating on those do not have high enough resolution to give accurate results for narrow spikes found in trichromatic lamps like triphosphor fluorescent and uncommon RGB LED lights.

    Can you share the difference in spectrum between 90+ vs 80+ lights? I am curious.
    http://www.lightingpassport.com/

    at the time, the pro was not available. i'm using the standard lux model.
    they run $2,000. if you want better resolution, it'll cost you $7k to get it.

    it's the same unit acuity lighting uses in their lighting lab in golden, co.
    here's a unit we were playing with while acuity's 2nd generation rubik
    luminaries were scrolling thru 16 bit color flip flops... the 2 x 2 tiles
    have nine segments, and they have a color balance that all the changing
    colors, at the desktop, don't change color temperature or intensity.

    you wouldn't believe it without the meter sitting there.
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