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Thread: Romex in Basement

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by qcroanoke View Post
    I don't blame you at all, I would not want to look at that every time I went in the basement.
    I hate seeing it every time I go into the basement! Even more so now that I know it is not in compliance! I plan to stay here for a long time. If for some reason I ever do need to move, I don't want any problems with inspections. Plus, code exists for many reasons. One of those reasons is to protect me and my family, so I subscribe to the idea of minimizing potential risks.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by no1uknow View Post
    I hate seeing it every time I go into the basement! Even more so now that I know it is not in compliance! I plan to stay here for a long time. If for some reason I ever do need to move, I don't want any problems with inspections. Plus, code exists for many reasons. One of those reasons is to protect me and my family, so I subscribe to the idea of minimizing potential risks.
    The reason for not allowing small gauge NM to run perpendicular and stapled to the bottom of the joists is so that people will not use them as clotheslines or support other junk from them. Provided you arent doing that, there is NOTHING unsafe about the practice (especially ~9" AFF).

    I'm surprised that 1/2" PVC water line is allowed to be (or was) installed in the same manner. The one nail supports for those are weak, and a busted water line at ~90psi will cause a lot of damage in a short time, as well as make any electrical that gets flooded quite dangerous. There was a story here last year of woman and her daughter getting electrocuted in a flooded basement:

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...310396271.html
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Put in a suspended ceiling and it is no longer a violation.
    I believe it would still be a violation. Look at the definition of "exposed, as applied to wiring methods" in Article 100.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    The reason for not allowing small gauge NM to run perpendicular and stapled to the bottom of the joists is so that people will not use them as clotheslines or support other junk from them. Provided you arent doing that, there is NOTHING unsafe about the practice (especially ~9" AFF).

    I'm surprised that 1/2" PVC water line is allowed to be (or was) installed in the same manner. The one nail supports for those are weak, and a busted water line at ~90psi will cause a lot of damage in a short time, as well as make any electrical that gets flooded quite dangerous. There was a story here last year of woman and her daughter getting electrocuted in a flooded basement:

    http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...310396271.html
    I've seen cables drilled through floor joists used as clothes hangers as well, so that theory makes absolutely no sense IMO. Then more recently they wanted them drilled even in crawlspaces, I never see anyone crawl into those spaces just to hang clothes from whatever is convenient to hang them from. Personally I think they should be permitted to be installed on the underside of joists if they are over 8 feet from the floor, or in a crawlspace that will likely never get a finished ceiling installed over it, but the CMP never asked for my opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by packersparky View Post
    I believe it would still be a violation. Look at the definition of "exposed, as applied to wiring methods" in Article 100.
    Might be.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    I've seen cables drilled through floor joists used as clothes hangers as well, so that theory makes absolutely no sense IMO. Then more recently they wanted them drilled even in crawlspaces, I never see anyone crawl into those spaces just to hang clothes from whatever is convenient to hang them from. Personally I think they should be permitted to be installed on the underside of joists if they are over 8 feet from the floor, or in a crawlspace that will likely never get a finished ceiling installed over it, but the CMP never asked for my opinion

    Might be.
    My guess is that if the wires run thru the joists, even if people hang stuff from them, they wont cascade fail from overloading like 20+ NM staples would. In VA, crawlspaces are different from basements; with the former, you can perpendicularly run small NM stapled to the bottom side of the joists, because like you say, no one is crawling in crawlspaces and stuffing junk atop the wiring. It's one of the few common sense things we have.

    The staples for 8/3 - 6/2 or larger are a heck of a lot sturdier than their smaller counterparts; one can just about do a pull up on the wiring and not tear the staple(s) out of the wood.

    I'm not sure the delineation point between crawlspace and basement here. A fair number of houses are built on aggressive slopes, where the entry way may have a full-size door and 8' headroom, and on the other side there is barely 2' clearance between the ground and the joists. I havent had to wire one of these, but I would drill everything, run along the band, or use running boards than risk having to pull out a ton of <8ga NM because the AHJ considered the whole shebang a basement.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post

    The staples for 8/3 - 6/2 or larger are a heck of a lot sturdier than their smaller counterparts; one can just about do a pull up on the wiring and not tear the staple(s) out of the wood.
    Can't say I entirely agree with that. Seen some very old rusted staples securing 12 or 14 AWG cables that won't pull out no matter what you try. New soft wood and a short smooth nail driven into it often pull out pretty easily.

    3/4 inch wide staples that one might use for 8-2 or 6-2 have just about the same nails as the 1/2 inch wide staples

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Can't say I entirely agree with that. Seen some very old rusted staples securing 12 or 14 AWG cables that won't pull out no matter what you try. New soft wood and a short smooth nail driven into it often pull out pretty easily.

    3/4 inch wide staples that one might use for 8-2 or 6-2 have just about the same nails as the 1/2 inch wide staples
    Yeah, older homes or docks come to mind. Some of that wood is so hard that driving a NM staple is nigh impossible w/o predrilling, which is another reason I prefer drilling joists vs stapling; Im not hammering on my back getting junk and mole crickets in my face
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Yeah, older homes or docks come to mind. Some of that wood is so hard that driving a NM staple is nigh impossible w/o predrilling, which is another reason I prefer drilling joists vs stapling; Im not hammering on my back getting junk and mole crickets in my face
    Instead you drill the holes while on your back getting wood chips, junk and crickets in your face

    Then come back and pull cables and get some of it all over again


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    Instead you drill the holes while on your back getting wood chips, junk and crickets in your face

    Then come back and pull cables and get some of it all over again



    Difference is I can place the drill, and look away while drilling. I cant swing a hammer blindly...well, I'm sure I can, once...
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post


    Difference is I can place the drill, and look away while drilling. I cant swing a hammer blindly...well, I'm sure I can, once...
    I found out one day a couple weeks ago I can't swing a hammer while looking at it either. Was attaching some running boards that day, hit my thumb three times with the hammer before I decided I must be having a bad day. First two times wasn't too hard, I was starting nails those times, the third time I was driving the nail and hitting pretty hard, my thumb was there because I needed to hold that board in place at that time. To top that off, later the same day walked right into the end of some EMT that was sticking out the back end of my truck - of course at head level and got me right in the forehead. At that point I wasn't sure if it was even safe to drive home.

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