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Thread: Disconnect 30Amp Above Panel

  1. #1
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    Disconnect 30Amp Above Panel

    The disconnect in the picture, I don't know the height of it, but being located above another panel and seeing the conduit surmisses that it services that panel below it as the disconnecting means for the panel or whatever it is, controller maybe? Shouldn't the disconnect be located on the side of that panel as nothing should be in front of it?
    Thanks for any help.
    JRLName:  Heater Disc.jpg
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  2. #2
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    I can't tell what that disco is for, however does it not intrude on the required dedicated space, see 110.26 (F) (1) (a)? It might also be between a load and a branch circuit out of the panel below.

  3. #3
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    It could violate the Art 404.8 6'7" rule but, again, if it feeds that heater it would me the exemption.
    At my age, I'm accustomed to restaurants asking me to pay in advance, but now my bank has started sending me their calendar one month at a time.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwaskowitz View Post
    I can't tell what that disco is for, however does it not intrude on the required dedicated space, see 110.26 (F) (1) (a)? It might also be between a load and a branch circuit out of the panel below.
    "Dedicated space" is "dedicated" to the electrical installation. Other electrical equipment and raceways may be installed in that space. Any equipment governed by the NEC, whether related to the nearby unit or not. It is foreign systems like plumbing and HVAC that are prohibited in that space.

  5. #5
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    Not just foreign systems. Other electrical must be considered also under specific conditions.

    When I stated "...that it does it not intrude on the required dedicated space, see 110.26 (F) (1) (a)", I was not saying that it does, but that it could and needs to be considered. 110.26 has restrictions on even electrical equipment when it comes to what can be located in another piece of equipment's working space.

    I was remembering an illustration in Mike Holt's Understanding the 2008 Code at 110.26 (A)(3) where a transformer was placed under a panel. I went back to 2008 where it used to state at 110.26 (A) (3) "OTHER equipment such as ...cabinets, panels, etc., can be located above the electrical equipment, but must not extend more than 6 inches into the equipment's working space". I don't know how far that disco extends into that space. It is not just talking about foreign systems but other electrical equipment.

    I see now that I mistakenly thought that meant 6 inches from the wall. 2014 however is worded a little differently. It says the same thing but it made me realize that the intrusion into a work space does not begin at the back of the equipment but past its front.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carultch View Post
    "Dedicated space" is "dedicated" to the electrical installation. Other electrical equipment and raceways may be installed in that space. Any equipment governed by the NEC, whether related to the nearby unit or not.
    Although I don't disagree in principle with that viewpoint, I don't think the words in the code support it. One electrical component can be "foreign" to a panel. If the intent of this article is to keep space above a panel reserved for future conduits, then a fused disconnect above a panel (such as shown in the thread) will block the future installation of conduits. Does that violate the rule? I would say this is open to debate.

    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwaskowitz View Post
    Not just foreign systems. Other electrical must be considered also under specific conditions.

    When I stated "...that it does it not intrude on the required dedicated space, see 110.26 (F) (1) (a)", I was not saying that it does, but that it could and needs to be considered. 110.26 has restrictions on even electrical equipment when it comes to what can be located in another piece of equipment's working space.

    I was remembering an illustration in Mike Holt's Understanding the 2008 Code at 110.26 (A)(3) where a transformer was placed under a panel. I went back to 2008 where it used to state at 110.26 (A) (3) "OTHER equipment such as ...cabinets, panels, etc., can be located above the electrical equipment, but must not extend more than 6 inches into the equipment's working space". I don't know how far that disco extends into that space. It is not just talking about foreign systems but other electrical equipment.

    I see now that I mistakenly thought that meant 6 inches from the wall. 2014 however is worded a little differently. It says the same thing but it made me realize that the intrusion into a work space does not begin at the back of the equipment but past its front.
    That panel is likely less then 6" deeper then the disconnect though If the disconnect enclosure were 4" deep and the cabinet for the panel were 12" deep you very well have a working clearance violation here, all depends if the disconnect requires 110.26 clearance in the first place though. We really need to know more about it to know that for certain, as well as what ever local rules may apply to such circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Although I don't disagree in principle with that viewpoint, I don't think the words in the code support it. One electrical component can be "foreign" to a panel. If the intent of this article is to keep space above a panel reserved for future conduits, then a fused disconnect above a panel (such as shown in the thread) will block the future installation of conduits. Does that violate the rule? I would say this is open to debate.

    Is the dedicated space for conduits only or is it for electrical system equipment in general?


    Maximum switch height rule may be the only violation here, still need more information on that switch and what it is for to make that determination though. And we really can't tell how high it is from the photo anyway.

  8. #8
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    I tend to agree with Charlie that only equipment needed for the panel installation should be in that space-- such as a wireway or trough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    I tend to agree with Charlie that only equipment needed for the panel installation should be in that space-- such as a wireway or trough.
    wireway or trough is necessary for the panel installation? Most of the time it is a convenience or a design issue and not a necessity, raceway or cables still can be used.

    The space is dedicated to electrical equipment, which makes sense to not allow plumbing, heating, etc. equipment in that space, but anything beyond that starts to turn into design issues IMO. Safe access to items requiring service while energized is understandable issue that should have NEC requirements. Then comes workplace safety and the fact you shouldn't work on things while energized as a general rule, but that is not exactly covered by NEC either, not directly anyhow.

  10. #10
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    Let's be precise here.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    The space is dedicated to electrical equipment. . . .
    Not quite. The words are that the space is "dedicated to the electrical installation." That last word is the reason I think this is subject to debate. One could say that the "electrical installation" is anything and everything in the building that the electrician would install, from the service disconnect to the most remote receptacle. One could instead say that the subject under discussion is the switchgear, switchboard, MCC, or panelboard for which we are reserving the dedicated space. That would lead to the point of view that the phrase "electrical installation" refers to that component and only the other things that are directly associated with that component.

    Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
    Comments based on 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted.

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