disconnect location

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Daja7

Senior Member
We installed a gfci disc for a future deck and hot tub. when the deck was built it was shorter than initially planned so the disconnect is 6" on the other side of deck rail. You can easily reach through the rail about 5" to operate it.
Inspector says not accessible. It is within sight and can be operated easily. Rail is 6ft so you cannot reach over but can reach through. While I would have preferred to have it on the inside I do not see anything in the code that prevents this. Thoughts?
 

E16

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Do you have your working clearances in front of it?
Can it be accessed from final grade?
 

Daja7

Senior Member
Do you have your working clearances in front of it?
Can it be accessed from final grade?

working clearance is fine. it does take a 4 foot ladder to get to it from grade. But i am not sure that makes it inaccessible. My understanding is the accessibility to turn on and off for maint. which it can be. I could be wrong but that is they way I read it when 680.12 says maint disconnect. must be accessible. accessible def. says do not have to climb over or move items to get to it to operate. (not exact quote).
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I believe the term "accessible" is defined in article 100. You might want to take a look there. Unless it is redefined just for the purposes of the provisions this installation comes under, it means what it says it does in article 100.

I think the first definition of accessible found in article 100 would be the appropriate one to be using.
 

E16

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
working clearance is fine. it does take a 4 foot ladder to get to it from grade. But i am not sure that makes it inaccessible. My understanding is the accessibility to turn on and off for maint. which it can be. I could be wrong but that is they way I read it when 680.12 says maint disconnect. must be accessible. accessible def. says do not have to climb over or move items to get to it to operate. (not exact quote).

sorry but what code cycle are you on?

2011 says "readily accessible" in 680.12

definition readily accessible- Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to clomb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Will a j-box and some pipe fix the problem?
 

Daja7

Senior Member
sorry but what code cycle are you on?

2011 says "readily accessible" in 680.12

definition readily accessible- Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Will a j-box and some pipe fix the problem?

Yes , That is my solution should I need to. However It is capable of being easily reached from the deck. the disc. is 5" from the rail. My tech. made final terminations from the deck. I am not going to fight this very hard i just felt that this met the letter and intent of the code.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
sorry but what code cycle are you on?

2011 says "readily accessible" in 680.12

definition readily accessible- Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to clomb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

Will a j-box and some pipe fix the problem?

If you have clearances on the other side of the fence then you have readily access when you can walk up to it and operate it. There is nothing in the code about the clear path you take to get to the disconnect for operation. Within sight is up to 50' away, so if your path to operate is within 50' what is the issue. You may choose to operate the DC through the fence but that is not the code legal access to working clearances for examination or operation IMHO.
Though like many threads here a missing piece of the puzzle may have been left out that nulify comments.
 

E16

Member
Location
Iowa
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If you have clearances on the other side of the fence then you have readily access when you can walk up to it and operate it. There is nothing in the code about the clear path you take to get to the disconnect for operation. Within sight is up to 50' away, so if your path to operate is within 50' what is the issue. You may choose to operate the DC through the fence but that is not the code legal access to working clearances for examination or operation IMHO.
Though like many threads here a missing piece of the puzzle may have been left out that nulify comments.

I agree but he said it took a 4' ladder to access it from grade. I don't know hard to say with out seeing all the site conditions. I am sure within sight varies also!!

Frustrating when you try to do a good install and get burned. Sounds like the deck changed somewhere along the way.
 

Daja7

Senior Member
I agree but he said it took a 4' ladder to access it from grade. I don't know hard to say with out seeing all the site conditions. I am sure within sight varies also!!

Frustrating when you try to do a good install and get burned. Sounds like the deck changed somewhere along the way.

It is within sight. about 7 feet away. operable from the deck easily. The deck was suppose to go beyond the disconnect but it got shortened to create this issue. Not that hard to remedy just a PITA.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
It is within sight. about 7 feet away. operable from the deck easily. ...
Within sight implies IMO that it not be obscured in any way. You didn't provide details of the railing balustrade width and spacing, so potential exists for the handle to be obscured at one point or another around the equipment depending viewing angle.

Another issue is 404.8 if the handle is at a height greater than 6'7" from the floor or working platform, which is measured within the working space. Exception No. 3 could provide an out... but only for this issue and not the others.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Sounds like you have access for operation, but not necessarily renewal or inspection.
I would not even make a token attempt to fight it.
It would, however be a change order from the original plan.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there is an exception for one and two family dwellings which makes this disconnect not necessary. That is in the NEC but perhaps not in your residential code, if this is a residential application.
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
definition readily accessible- Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

How would the use of a permanent ladder apply, to the definition of "readily accessible"?

If I locate a switch right by the top of a ladder permanently installed on a building wall that you can climb from the ground, does that switch still count as "readily accessible"?
 
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