new bath vent/light in existing ceiling

Status
Not open for further replies.

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
Anybody have any tips on replacing a light/fan vent in bathroom w/ no access above. potential customer called and said that they had a Hampton bay light that the night light would not go off. They were told by home depot that the light was defective. So they bought a new different assembly and now wont fit. They had a "friend that's handy with electric" try and they haven't had any luck. I know in the past way back it involves cutting out a decent size hole to attatch correctly, if theres no access. But wasn't sure if there were any ideas on install or if newer models had accomadations for this. Im going to look at the job on Tuesday. It sounds funny because it seems there may have been something simple to fix in the old fixture, since the house is only 2 yrs old, so Im proceeding cautiously.

Thanx and be safe
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
Now thinking about this if this vent fan circuit is connected to say a hallway or bedroom lighting circuit, shouldn't I also need to make the circuit AFCI protected since Im replacing the fixture. Just wondering.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I wouldn't concern myself with it being or not being on an AFCI circuit. Especially since the house is only 2 years old.

If the fan/light hasn't already been taken back or thrown away, it shouldn't be that much trouble to repair the light in it.

If it's too late, and the old unit is gone, then time to rethink.
You would need to get the same model fan/light or close. Then you could just swap out the guts and leave the housing.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Since it won't turn off, make sure that you have a replacement switch that costs more
than .49 cents. :D Call ahead to ask for exact color!
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
I like to see if I can get a feel for how set they are on what they want, its manipulation in the end but it works.
If it doesn't matter that much I'll offer to go get another one.
If they are dead set on it then I look it over then tell them in a confident tone.
This should be no problem, I just need to cut one side bigger so that I can properly mount it. Your handy man seems pretty ,he didn't tear anything up. You probably have paint in your attic left for you by the contractor. A patch should be no problem.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If the original problem was that the night light won't shut off...........

the problem likely was not even in the fan/light housing but rather the wall switch, or if within the housing - something is just connected wrong.

You could try hundreds of different units but the problem will only be solved when the problem at the switch is solved. Go there and fix the switch problem and tell them to haggle with either HD or their handyman over charges related to anything else already done that was not the problem.:slaphead:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I also would check the wall switch and make sure the unit did have a switch to begin with.

BTW, my guys retro fans all the time. Make sure there is no plumbing around when you must increase the size. Most units can go in from below but it does take patience.
 

ronaldrc

Senior Member
Location
Tennessee
That is what night lights do, stay on all night they are usually designed that way.

But most if not all bath fan/lights combs. are accessible from the bottom
you could rework the wiring from the bottom.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
That is what night lights do, stay on all night they are usually designed that way.

But most if not all bath fan/lights combs. are accessible from the bottom
you could rework the wiring from the bottom.

The problem is different brands may have the wiring compartment of the opposite side and the wire may not be long enough.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
I recently installed a new fan that had a night light, I just didn't put in the element!
Frankly as I think about it it might have been another internal plug and didn't use it!

Per the road map, it would require a 12/4 circuit to be able to turn off the night light
if one even wanted to wire it that way...
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
Thanx for all the good info. I believe the customer said there were 3 switches. Im looking at it tomorrow. The old light/fan was removed. Im thinking that i may be able to attatch some 2x4s to frame out the opening and then attatch by screwing through the inside of the housing. I am curious as how it was wired in the past in regards to the night light feature. Anybody see any issues with mounting this way. I checked the install instructions for what sounds like a similar fixture online and only shows the use of the adjustment bars, no mention of other mounting options. Thanx again for all your help.

Be safe
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
Well I looked at the job its an abortion customer bought wrong size for existing opening and there is access above if your a monkey. The fan has 2 12/2 romex going to it. I explained that in order for night light to work I need to pull a 3 conductor to it to feed that and normal lights(per nec 300.3), they decided to not have night light. I am going to cut more space out to hopefully be able to do from below. Any suggestions.


Jeff
 

JDB3

Senior Member
When I first started in the trade, I was taught to run 2 12/2 to heat/vent/light. We identified one of the white wires & used it as a switch leg. I know #6 suppose to be smallest to mark, but it worked. :D
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
yeah I remember when I first started in trade I was the one crawling in the attics lol but I was 150lbs lighter then lol. I don't really need a switch leg in the light the feed comes from switch box that is fed first just need 3 conductors for the 3 loads to do so you either need 14/4 or a 14/2 and 14/3 so as the neutral is in the same cable for which the ungrounded conductors feed. Man I remember those days I would itch for days after crawling around in the insulation for a day lol thanx for the input stay safe
 

JDB3

Senior Member
With 2 12/2's, 2 blacks; 2 whites; 2 bare. Identify one of the whites on both ends with red phasing tape, presto, you have 1 white neutral, 2 black switch legs , & 1 red switch leg.:thumbsup:
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
I understand that however 300.3 states that the neutral has to be run in the same cable assembly as the conductors that are feeding the loads unlike a switch leg where you feed a switch with 2 wire (one conductor to switch and switch leg back). If you phase one conductor as a hot leg you have 2 conductors feeding 2 loads with no neutral in cable assembly to cancel out eddy currents or hysteresis. This is what I understand from the code.
 

FREEBALL

Senior Member
Location
york pa usa
What I was referring to was the fact that without a neutral in the cable with the current carrying conductors it builds up more heat. In conduit you get heat from hysteresis. From what I understand the magnetic fields will create heat if they aren't cancelled out. Albeit in this install you probably wont see anything appreciable but in larger loads this could be problematic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top