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Thread: Outdoor and wet location questions

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myoclonic View Post
    Spoke to one of their inspectors too and confirmed my pass through will meet code, have to bury my sch40 conduit 18", everything needs to be listed, cable support every 4.5', etc. Sure sounds like they expect me to follow NEC.
    Your relief from the NEC amounts to the requirements in chapters 1-4, unless they are specifically called for in 800 or whatever.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    Your relief from the NEC amounts to the requirements in chapters 1-4, unless they are specifically called for in 800 or whatever.
    Thank you for your help sir.

  3. #13
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    Spoke to one of their inspectors too and confirmed my pass through will meet code, have to bury my sch40 conduit 18", everything needs to be listed, cable support every 4.5', etc. Sure sounds like they expect me to follow NEC.
    Sure does. What parts?

    -Hal

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Sure does. What parts?

    -Hal
    Haha exactly! Even the inspector couldn't give me a straight answer on that! Have a GC buddy in the area I'm still waiting to hear back from, hopefully he has a lead or 2 on some local electricians familiar with the AHJ.

    It's been a little while since I've done a wiring job too, like I said trying to help out a buddy. I assume most places haven't adopted this ridiculous level of code for ethernet?

  5. #15
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    Don't take this personally, but what happened with your inspector has to do with the belief that LV installers are, for the lack of a better phrase, a bunch of hacks. Most have no idea what the Code is and couldn't care less that it exists. You, on the other hand, approached the inspector with an interest in the Code and a desire to do what's right. From what I can see you have a way to go in understanding how the NEC relates to the LV trade and how the Code book is written. With that in mind, if you had come to me and asked me about this project I would have simply told you how I would have done it, not confused you with the NEC. This is what the inspector was doing, telling you how to do it, not explaining the Code to you. The reason he can't give you a straight answer as to where what he said is covered is because it's not. These are all workmanship issues.

    You need to know that LV and communications are covered in Article 725 then Article 800 on up. The ONLY reason you need to look at the pages before 725 is if you are told by something in 725 or 800 on up that you are to refer to it. So basically you could tear out the entire front of the book because it doesn't apply to your work. (Ahh, no, don't do that.)

    -Hal

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Don't take this personally, but what happened with your inspector has to do with the belief that LV installers are, for the lack of a better phrase, a bunch of hacks. Most have no idea what the Code is and couldn't care less that it exists. You, on the other hand, approached the inspector with an interest in the Code and a desire to do what's right. From what I can see you have a way to go in understanding how the NEC relates to the LV trade and how the Code book is written. With that in mind, if you had come to me and asked me about this project I would have simply told you how I would have done it, not confused you with the NEC. This is what the inspector was doing, telling you how to do it, not explaining the Code to you. The reason he can't give you a straight answer as to where what he said is covered is because it's not. These are all workmanship issues.

    You need to know that LV and communications are covered in Article 725 then Article 800 on up. The ONLY reason you need to look at the pages before 725 is if you are told by something in 725 or 800 on up that you are to refer to it. So basically you could tear out the entire front of the book because it doesn't apply to your work. (Ahh, no, don't do that.)

    -Hal
    No offence taken sir, you're pretty much right on the money. I'm not an electrician, just an IT guy who's pulled a lot of cable, but I take pride in my work and like to do it right the first time. My lack of experience on this specific type of job has me second guessing my workmanship a bit maybe, and suspect I'm looking for answers where none exist (like the NEC). Thank you for your honest assessment.


    So then forget the NEC. Any suggestions on how to inexpensively transition from underground conduit to open wiring in a wet location and a fence line? (While maintaining good workmanship, obviously)


    Thanks again for everyone's time and insight,


    Myo

  7. #17
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    One important consideration is that any cable in an underground conduit is required to be a wet location rated cable. Standard Cat 5 from that you use in a building won't be suitable, as the conduit will have water in it from condensation, and the indoor rated cable won't hold up
    Moderator-Washington State
    Ancora Imparo

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom baker View Post
    One important consideration is that any cable in an underground conduit is required to be a wet location rated cable. Standard Cat 5 from that you use in a building won't be suitable, as the conduit will have water in it from condensation, and the indoor rated cable won't hold up
    Thanks and understood, I plan on using direct burial rated for all the wire outside of the main building, including in the conduit. Simple solution that's rated for wet, outdoor, uvr and listed, so I can just use it everywhere.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom baker View Post
    One important consideration is that any cable in an underground conduit is required to be a wet location rated cable. Standard Cat 5 from that you use in a building won't be suitable, as the conduit will have water in it from condensation, and the indoor rated cable won't hold up
    Not true (at least in part).

    800.47 Underground Communications Wires and Cables
    Entering Buildings. Underground communications wires
    and cables entering buildings shall comply with 800.47(A)
    and (B). The requirements of 310.10(C) shall not apply to
    communications wires and cables.

    (A) With Electric Light or Power Conductors. Underground
    communications wires and cables in a raceway,
    handhole enclosure, or manhole containing electric light,
    power, Class 1, or non–power-limited fire alarm circuit
    conductors shall be in a section separated from such conductors
    by means of brick, concrete, or tile partitions or by
    means of a suitable barrier.

    (B) Underground Block Distribution. Where the entire
    street circuit is run underground and the circuit within the
    block is placed so as to be free from the likelihood of
    accidental contact with electric light or power circuits of
    over 300 volts to ground, the insulation requirements of
    800.50(A) and (C) shall not apply, insulating supports shall
    not be required for the conductors, and bushings shall not
    be required where the conductors enter the building.
    Quote Originally Posted by 310.10
    (C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used
    in wet locations shall comply with one of the following:
    (1) Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
    (2) Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2,
    THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
    (3) Be of a type listed for use in wet locations
    The question is, whether outside underground not entering a building or underground entirely within a building are subject to a different requirement.
    I'll never get there. No matter where I go, I'm always here.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    Not true (at least in part).

    The question is, whether outside underground not entering a building or underground entirely within a building are subject to a different requirement.
    Depends on the listing. If it's CMX as most direct burial UTP is you can't run it within buildings (except residential) unless it's in conduit. Although not specifically addressed by the Code, I see no reason why you can't treat a direct burial CMX cable entering a building from the outside the same as unlisted OSP cable which under the same circumstances can be run a maximum of 50 feet within a building without conduit.

    If it's outside a building nobody cares what you use. That's a design issue.

    The reason for the restrictions on type CMX cable is because the compounds used (the jell and the jacket) are flammable or will emit toxic fumes when burned. Since the NEC is only about the protection of life and property it has an interest in how this cable is used inside of buildings. Outside, there is no way any kind of data cable can endanger life and property so the NEC doesn't cover those installations.

    -Hal
    Last edited by hbiss; 04-19-17 at 11:31 PM.

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