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Thread: Outdoor and wet location questions

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Depends on the listing. If it's CMX as most direct burial UTP is you can't run it within buildings (except residential) unless it's in conduit. Although not specifically addressed by the Code, I see no reason why you can't treat a direct burial CMX cable entering a building from the outside the same as unlisted OSP cable which under the same circumstances can be run a maximum of 50 feet within a building without conduit.

    If it's outside a building nobody cares what you use. That's a design issue.

    The reason for the restrictions on type CMX cable is because the compounds used (the jell and the jacket) are flammable or will emit toxic fumes when burned. Since the NEC is only about the protection of life and property it has an interest in how this cable is used inside of buildings. Outside, there is no way any kind of data cable can endanger life and property so the NEC doesn't cover those installations.

    -Hal
    Spoke with a local today who did his own installation in his greenhouse. Had to redo it 3 times before they passed inspections! "First they wouldn't let me use the gray stuff (CM or unlisted I assume), then they wouldn't let me use the brown stuff (likely CMP?), then they told me I had to put the black stuff (CMX?) in conduit!"

    Haha, exactly what I'm trying to avoid (and I won't argue with you about the reputation of some LV installers). I was familiar with the 50' limitation on unlisted OSP, and the inspector couldn't give me a straight answer on CMX over 50'.

    Hmm, come up at the exterior of the greenhouse, run the cable on the outside and punch through the poly to a camera far less than 50' away?

  2. #22
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    Jun 2003
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    Hawthorne, NY
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    If this were an office or other installation within a building then I would follow the letter of the local requirements. But what you are doing looks to be 99% outdoors and in something I don't even know qualifies as a building. Other than the wiring in the main building, I don't see any of this falling under the NEC.

    I hate to give this kind of advice, but sometimes you need to know when to keep your mouth shut.

    -Hal

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    ... Other than the wiring in the main building, I don't see any of this falling under the NEC.
    The NEC applies to the entire premises, not just within buildings
    I'll never get there. No matter where I go, I'm always here.

  4. #24
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    How do you figure that? This is data wiring remember.

    -Hal

  5. #25
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    How do you figure that? This is data wiring remember.

    -Hal
    This...
    90.2 Scope.

    (A) Covered.
    This Code covers the installation of electrical
    conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and
    communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and
    optical fiber cables and raceways for the following:
    (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures,
    mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating
    buildings
    (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
    (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect
    to the supply of electricity
    (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office
    buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and
    recreational buildings, that are not an integral part of a
    generating plant, substation, or control center.

    (B) Not Covered.
    ...(nothing appears to apply)
    I'll never get there. No matter where I go, I'm always here.

  6. #26
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    Aug 2004
    Location
    Northern illinois
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    14,689
    Communications Circuit. The circuit that extends voice,
    audio, video, data, interactive services, telegraph (except
    radio), outside wiring for fire alarm and burglar alarm from
    the communications utility to the customer’s communications
    equipment up to and including terminal equipment
    such as a telephone, fax machine, or answering machine.
    so what does this abomination mean?

    it appears to me to mean that article 800 only applies to wiring coming from the utility to a customer's equipment. I don't see how it would apply to cameras that are wired between two pieces of customer owned equipment such as a camera and the DVR it is connected to.
    Bob

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    This...

    90.2 Scope.

    (A) Covered.
    This Code covers the installation of electrical
    conductors, equipment, and raceways; signaling and
    communications conductors, equipment, and raceways; and
    optical fiber cables and raceways for the following:
    (1) Public and private premises, including buildings, structures,
    mobile homes, recreational vehicles, and floating
    buildings
    (2) Yards, lots, parking lots, carnivals, and industrial substations
    (3) Installations of conductors and equipment that connect
    to the supply of electricity
    (4) Installations used by the electric utility, such as office
    buildings, warehouses, garages, machine shops, and
    recreational buildings, that are not an integral part of a
    generating plant, substation, or control center.

    (B) Not Covered.
    ...(nothing appears to apply)
    Agreed. But show me where CAT6 ty-rapped to a chain link fence or the burial depth of CAT6 in sch40 conduit is addressed.

    Yes, it covers such systems but only as addressed in 725 and 800.

    -Hal

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Agreed. But show me where CAT6 ty-rapped to a chain link fence or the burial depth of CAT6 in sch40 conduit is addressed.

    Yes, it covers such systems but only as addressed in 725 and 800.
    I'm not saying it covers those particular aspects of the installation. I'm just saying the installation must be compliant everywhere on the premises, not just in buildings.
    I'll never get there. No matter where I go, I'm always here.

  9. #29
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    Apr 2017
    Location
    FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Agreed. But show me where CAT6 ty-rapped to a chain link fence or the burial depth of CAT6 in sch40 conduit is addressed.

    Yes, it covers such systems but only as addressed in 725 and 800.

    -Hal
    Haha, yes, my ignorance is permanently archived on the internet for all to see! At least it's maybe slightly improved now, thanks to you kind sir, and these other fine gentlemen. Seeing the experts trying to figure this stuff out at least makes me feel a little better about my own confusion.

    Initially I was pretty confident this would be an easy job, a rural greenhouse with 12 drops out in the middle of nowhere compared to 3000+ drop multi-story office buildings and campuses within city limits. But those were also long ago under different circumstances and requirements, we often (but not always) subbed out the conduit and/or fiber or bid on just the wiring if separate, so conduit is not my strongest point, even less outdoors. Does design advice fall under the category of 'technical questions'? Is it honestly this difficult or am I just over-thinking it? Or maybe in over my head?

    No matter what, thanks all for taking the time to read and post in this thread.

    -Myo

  10. #30
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    Jun 2003
    Location
    Hawthorne, NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post
    I'm not saying it covers those particular aspects of the installation. I'm just saying the installation must be compliant everywhere on the premises, not just in buildings.
    Taking a half-moon flower bed edger and making a slit in the turf 3" deep then stomping the cable into it would be compliant. That's what the cable guys do.

    -Hal

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