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Thread: Outdoor and wet location questions

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Taking a half-moon flower bed edger and making a slit in the turf 3" deep then stomping the cable into it would be compliant. That's what the cable guys do.
    I know. I've done it plenty of times myself with satellite TV cable.

    However, here's some food for thought: every time you run underground, you end up having a riser at each end... so the type of cable you use must meet riser requirements.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

  2. #32
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    You're not confusing riser as in CMR that you use for vertical runs between floors with cable suitable to be run from outside into the building? If your underground or aerial cable cannot be run within the building you must transition to something that can at the point of entrance or within 50 feet if allowed. Inside the building the NEC applies.

    -Hal

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    You're not confusing riser as in CMR that you use for vertical runs between floors with cable suitable to be run from outside into the building? If your underground or aerial cable cannot be run within the building you must transition to something that can at the point of entrance or within 50 feet if allowed. Inside the building the NEC applies.
    See, you may already have an interpretation problem. And I'm not saying you are wrong... just that his AHJ may see it differently than you are used to.

    AFAIK, a riser simply penetrates a floor. Between floors is an okay distinction, but the ground floor is a floor. From underground to above ground is penetrating a floor.

    800.48 Unlisted Cables Entering Buildings. Unlisted
    outside plant communications cables shall be permitted to
    be installed in building spaces other than risers, ducts used
    for environmental air, plenums used for environmental air,
    and other spaces used for environmental air, where the
    length of the cable within the building, measured from its
    point of entrance, does not exceed 15 m (50 ft) and the
    cable enters the building from the outside and is terminated
    in an enclosure or on a listed primary protector.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

  4. #34
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    Haha you guys are cracking me up, thanks for the lols.

    Talked with a few more locals and looked at a couple similar installs, just gonna use a weatherhead to come up in the greenhouse, direct burial CMX > 50' is fine as long as the termination is waterproof (it's a bare steel frame with dirt floor what can burn lol, cams will have a twist lock cable-grip like connection), scratch in the cable along the fenceline, maybe some cheapo conduit up the fence for physical damage protection, etc.

    Thanks again all, my understanding of the NEC is at least slightly improved, have some confidence back. Maybe this thread will help someone else in the future, I'll keep tabs on it and update.

    -MyoclonicJerk

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Pull a permit and have an inspection for what? As was said, none of this falls under the NEC.

    What fire rated pass through?

    -Hal
    I does fall under the NEC. Specifically article 100,200, and 300 modified by 700 and 800.


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smart $ View Post

    AFAIK, a riser simply penetrates a floor. Between floors is an okay distinction, but the ground floor is a floor. From underground to above ground is penetrating a floor.
    I don't agree with you there. The NEC requires riser cable when the cable is penetrating "more than one floor" not merely coming out of the slab.


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strathead View Post
    I does fall under the NEC. Specifically article 100,200, and 300 modified by 700 and 800.
    I misspoke and was too late to edit. It should say, article 725 and 800 and article 300 when referenced by those articles.


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myoclonic View Post
    Haha you guys are cracking me up, thanks for the lols.

    Talked with a few more locals and looked at a couple similar installs, just gonna use a weatherhead to come up in the greenhouse, direct burial CMX > 50' is fine as long as the termination is waterproof (it's a bare steel frame with dirt floor what can burn lol, cams will have a twist lock cable-grip like connection), scratch in the cable along the fenceline, maybe some cheapo conduit up the fence for physical damage protection, etc.

    Thanks again all, my understanding of the NEC is at least slightly improved, have some confidence back. Maybe this thread will help someone else in the future, I'll keep tabs on it and update.

    -MyoclonicJerk
    It is relatively simple and we are making it harder to understand in our way. Basically if you are not installing a complete conduit system to pull wiring in, which you have indicated you aren't, the it is not actually conduit you are installing, it is a chase for cables. As such, the inspector is wrong about arbitrarily saying you have to bury it per the table in chapter three. The depth you have to bury it at is bound by article 725 or 800. Which doesn't require it at any specific depth, just be careful when talking to the inspector and say you are installing cable chases. So once you have that out of the way, then you are subject to rules you are likely familiar with. Make sure your cable is rated for direct burial and sunlight resistant, your equipment is listed for outdoor use, and that your termination in equipment are per the manufacturers requirements. The rest is merely standard things you indicated you already know like proper strapping, slack etc. Inspection is more of a district preference. Since it is covered under NEC articles they have every right to require a permit and an inspection. they don't have to though and in many places they don't It has become pretty typical in the 2000's though to require an inspection.


    I know what I don't know, and I know where to go to find it!

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    First off, you are not understanding the NEC and how it is set up. It has really nothing to say about outdoor LV wiring such as what you want to do. So do what you want.

    -Hal
    Not quite true. Cable type, grounding, building penetrations, and if run aerial/messenger supported wire, there are some sections that come into play. While not applicable here, there are a fair number of codes re: LV wiring of 680 installs. tho I dont have a 2017 NEC and likely wont for a while, if myoclonic has to install by that, there are some new sections in chapter 8.

    That said, I would not pull a permit for a job of this type, nor would I take it as I'm not familiar enough with OSP wiring to want to design such a system. Best bet for the uninitiated is a package designed for outside use. If the OP wants to ramp up the difficulty buy using parts not designed together, more power to him. I'd be more concerned about lightning strikes and damage/sabotage than building codes for this particular project.

    If I may ask a stupid question, what is the point in free running catx cable for a security system? Anywhere that cable is accessible means its also easily cut, even if by a weed eater instead of intentionally.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strathead View Post
    I don't agree with you there. The NEC requires riser cable when the cable is penetrating "more than one floor" not merely coming out of the slab.
    You best look again. For example...
    Quote Originally Posted by 800.113
    (D) Risers ā€” Cables and Raceways in Vertical Runs.
    The following cables, raceways, and cable routing assemblies
    shall be permitted in vertical runs penetrating one or
    more floors and in vertical runs in a shaft:
    I understand riser is not defined and you may think coming out of the ground is not a riser, but take a look at 300.5(J) Informational Note (quoted below). I realize this is not about communications. It does, however, reinforce my position that coming out of the ground is a riser in the most basic conventional sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by 300.5
    (J) Earth Movement. Where direct-buried conductors,
    raceways, or cables are subject to movement by settlement
    or frost, direct-buried conductors, raceways, or cables shall
    be arranged so as to prevent damage to the enclosed conductors
    or to equipment connected to the raceways.

    Informational Note: This section recognizes ā€œSā€ loops in
    underground direct burial to raceway transitions, expansion
    fittings in raceway risers to fixed equipment, and, generally,
    the provision of flexible connections to equipment subject
    to settlement or frost heaves.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

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