What wiring method can be used to limit EMF in a home where people can "feel" EMF?

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iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
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North of the 65 parallel
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EE (Field - as little design as possible)
... As for asbestos, if the health effects were known in the 1900s (and Im sure they were) and observable occupational health effects existed, then why was its use continued into the 70s? Why? Why is it that when I speak to everyone from the 60s and 70s they always say "we never knew it was dangerous" ... .

Money

Tetraethyl lead is a perfect example. I worked in refineries that were making leaded gasoline after 1990. The poisonous effects were well know in the 1970s - maybe even in the 1960s. How come we kept using it? Money

"we never knew it was dangerous" - Then they weren't listening. They were listening to the rustle of their paycheck.

ice
 

mirawho

Senior Member
Location
Sun Valley, CA
IMO those studies whether people can feel EMF is BS. Just my opinion. I think whether or not someone can feel it is not a concern, if anything good for them. The issue at hand is what are the long term health effects for those who can not feel it which is the majority of people.

To answer your question:




why-cats-hate-their-owners.jpg
 

mirawho

Senior Member
Location
Sun Valley, CA
Money

Tetraethyl lead is a perfect example. I worked in refineries that were making leaded gasoline after 1990. The poisonous effects were well know in the 1970s - maybe even in the 1960s. How come we kept using it? Money

"we never knew it was dangerous" - Then they weren't listening. They were listening to the rustle of their paycheck.

ice

Same with PCB's. They knew it was dangerous in the mid 30's and they didn't stop using it until the 70's. Thanks to Monsanto who called it Aroclor.
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Money

Tetraethyl lead is a perfect example. I worked in refineries that were making leaded gasoline after 1990. The poisonous effects were well know in the 1970s - maybe even in the 1960s. How come we kept using it? Money

"we never knew it was dangerous" - Then they weren't listening. They were listening to the rustle of their paycheck.

ice

Yup! Hit the nail on the head. :D:D:D:D

If mercury, lead and asbestos want toxic, it would still be in everything. Hence why it took such a long time to stop. People making profit didn't want to stop or change it. One of those ways is to suppress and evidence that says otherwise.
 

iceworm

Curmudgeon still using printed IEEE Color Books
Location
North of the 65 parallel
Occupation
EE (Field - as little design as possible)
... What better way to discard new knowledge than have a person's consciousness instanoulsy make the inference its hocu pocus?
Most new knowledge is very, very good. And yes there is plenty of hocus-pocus - either direction.

... the man-made stuff is typically bad no matter how you slice-dice it.

Modern technology and modern chemistry make for a pretty good life. I would far prefer today to 100 years ago - watching one's kids die of cholera, typhus, yellow fever, polio. small pox, plague, a bad cut turns into an amputation, women dying in child birth as often as not.

Go back 700 years - no gunpowder, no democracy

How about 4000 years? Urine tanned animal skins for clothes, no metal for plows to till the ground, no grain (no grain - no beer, no blended whiskey, no single malt scotch) What a terrible world.

I'll take today with child immunizations, microwave radiation, nuclear power, green house gasses and eco-freaks screaming about global warming over any other time in history. Along with these, I'll take the power we have today to fix the evils as they become evident.

ice
 

robbietan

Senior Member
Location
Antipolo City
[QUOoanoke;1613333]Hopefully Dennis Alwon will see this and respond. he is well versed on EMF.
Well as I am told emf above 10 Gauss is detrimental to health. The use of twisted pair cables and FMC EMT solidly bonded. Paired with emi rfi barrier wallboard will work for your job.


here is a booklet that shows (among others) the standards for EMF exposure. the ICNIRP guidelines mentioned are adopted in several countries

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/ass...mf_research_emf_questions_answers_booklet.pdf
 

Rampage_Rick

Senior Member
Tetraethyl lead is a perfect example. I worked in refineries that were making leaded gasoline after 1990. The poisonous effects were well know in the 1970s - maybe even in the 1960s. How come we kept using it? Money

"we never knew it was dangerous" - Then they weren't listening. They were listening to the rustle of their paycheck.
Hah! It's even worse than that. TEL was thought to be dangerous by some even before GM started selling it to the public in 1923. Numerous fellow scientists (including the US Surgeon General) wrote letters of concern to GM regarding the safety of TEL in 1922. Worker deaths began in 1923 once commercial production started.

Because one magnetic field isn't variable in the same way as the other. Most people don't sit next to spinning magnets, and a 60hz field rises and falls changing direction, not the same as standing next to a magnet going back and fourth. Further, a spinning magnet (at least your average one) isn't capable of heating up ferror magnetic conduit like if you were to only carry current through one and not both conductors in a conduit.
Many people sit adjacent to spinning magnets, in the form of electric motors. It's the basic principle on which they operate... It's also a big hole in the EMF scare mongering, as nobody is protesting all the magnetic fields emanating from fridges, washing machines, and other motor-driven appliances. They're too focused on what's coming from clock radios and baby monitors.

I can't see a significant difference between a 60Hz magnetic field emanating from a wire vs. a 60Hz field emanating from a magnet spinning at 3600RPM. In both cases the field is changing polarity 120 times per second. Elementary school science tells us that a spinning magnet can be used to induce current in a wire, and current in a wire can be used to cause a magnet to spin. I've yet to hear anybody claim that magnets are a health concern. Quite the contrary...
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
Location
United States
Occupation
Technician
Hah! It's even worse than that. TEL was thought to be dangerous by some even before GM started selling it to the public in 1923. Numerous fellow scientists (including the US Surgeon General) wrote letters of concern to GM regarding the safety of TEL in 1922. Worker deaths began in 1923 once commercial production started.

Many people sit adjacent to spinning magnets, in the form of electric motors. It's the basic principle on which they operate... It's also a big hole in the EMF scare mongering, as nobody is protesting all the magnetic fields emanating from fridges, washing machines, and other motor-driven appliances. They're too focused on what's coming from clock radios and baby monitors.

I can't see a significant difference between a 60Hz magnetic field emanating from a wire vs. a 60Hz field emanating from a magnet spinning at 3600RPM. In both cases the field is changing polarity 120 times per second. Elementary school science tells us that a spinning magnet can be used to induce current in a wire, and current in a wire can be used to cause a magnet to spin. I've yet to hear anybody claim that magnets are a health concern. Quite the contrary...


No one is denying washer, refrigerators and the like emit EMF. And transformers are even bigger offenders. And as I said either turn them off or move away from them.


But things like cell towers, HV transmission lines, wiring errors should be considered seriously because they can always be avoided. Perhaps not eliminating every cell tower or transmission line but if a risk exists common sense engineering solutions can be applied.


A recent transmission upgrade involved placing the phases hire up because of EMF concerns, which sounds expensive, but was worth it because the summer rating of the line was increased by at least 250MW because the allowable NESC sag distance was increased. Plus higher up placement means less change of right of way trees causing a fault.

In terms of a spinning magnet vs a wiring error. Yes a spinning magnet will induce current, but will a simple spinning hard drive cause conduit to heat up the way a wire carrying 6 amps of missing net current will?

Baby monitors and cell phones might be more concern because again, apples to oranges. One is a 50/60 hz field the other is a KHZ or MHZ field. Frequency also plays a role, and IMO the higher the frequency the more risk. X ray and Gamma rays while both in the electro magnetic spectrum have a higher frequency over visible light which is considered harmless. Yet X rays are known many times over to be a hazard.


Many factors play a role.

Either way, to EMFs themselves. If a risk does exist, do believe that will become well known to the general public? Before cell phones made it big there was buzz they might be a cancer risk. But suddenly every possible media outlet became silent and with that people.

Lets say cell towers have a slight to moderate cancer risk for the sake of the argument. If you are a cell company, do you want that getting out? An urban area already has poor coverage and you need to build a new tower in order to increase customer coverage and in turn profit.

Case 1: People know the risk and studies back it up. Very quickly you realize every sight even alternative ones wont do because every resident within a half mile is screaming not in my back yard. Protests occur, and even lawsuits claim "known carcinogen" Home values would fall as already have those with cell towers.

Now what? Suddenly the major cellular network envisioned a challenge with every tower.

Case 2: Evidence is repressed and media is made to portray those having concerns as loons. General public has no opposition, even welcomes the tower knowing better service. Health effects are not even given a second thought. In this case cell towers can be built anywhere and to any degree without fear of lawsuit or anything for that matter. A vital tool to business remains unrestricted. Profit flows in.


Where money is involved suppression of risk is a norm. It is seen well worth it by those that profit, at least another headache not having to deal with. As previously said, many chemicals were known to be hazardous, but cost kept them in use. And in some cases necessity as well. Asbestos may be toxic, but it made some of the best fire proofing and insulation known to man.



The fact people immediately jump to tin foil hate rather than healthy curiosity in itself an indicator IMO.
 
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