were conductors smaller?

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ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Question,
(120/240v residential)

Doing service panel upgrades/changes and found wires that appear to be smaller. (conductor, not the insulation).

I would use the wire gauge on my strippers and compare it to new, but in that panel change would be 14's and 12's on 15 amp and 20 amp breakers... and those 14's and 12's definitely appear smaller.

Are they, or am I bonkers?
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Not sure. I've seen them in really older installs (clothe type) maybe 40's but yet other possible 40's installs seamed right sized.
Seen them in maybe 50's and 60's installs but yet other possible 50's and 60's installs seamed right sized.

sounding like a Cletis post.


(no offense mr. cletis)
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Question,
(120/240v residential)

Doing service panel upgrades/changes and found wires that appear to be smaller. (conductor, not the insulation).

I would use the wire gauge on my strippers and compare it to new, but in that panel change would be 14's and 12's on 15 amp and 20 amp breakers... and those 14's and 12's definitely appear smaller.

Are they, or am I bonkers?

I'll go with "bonkers" for $200 Alex!:D

I usually find the opposite. The older NM cables, especially #12 seem larger to me.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Not sure. I've seen them in really older installs (clothe type) maybe 40's but yet other possible 40's installs seamed right sized.
Seen them in maybe 50's and 60's installs but yet other possible 50's and 60's installs seamed right sized.

sounding like a Cletis post.


(no offense mr. cletis)
Hmmm... in dealing with old wire vs. new, I got the impression quite often that old wire was larger.
 

rlundsrud

Senior Member
Location
chicago, il, USA
To eliminate guess work on this, use a pair of calipers to verify the OD. If you don't have a pair they can be obtained for as little as 20.00. For your purposes, I would recommend a digital caliper, they are easy to read and switch from imperial units to metric units at the touch of a button. They can so be useful for many other applications as they can read both inside and outside diameters and have a depth gauge as well.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
AWG is AWG.

That don't mean you didn't possibly come across a defective product that didn't meet standards.

Also solid vs stranded will be different sized see table 8 in chapter 9 it tells you this as well - and so will a stripper designed for solid conductors vs stranded conductors.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The insulation on the older wires were the same size but I agree a number 4 awg should be the same size. The wire may have been hard drawn copper rather than soft drawn which would make it stiffer but I am guessing at that.
 

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
AWG is AWG.

That don't mean you didn't possibly come across a defective product that didn't meet standards.

Also solid vs stranded will be different sized see table 8 in chapter 9 it tells you this as well - and so will a stripper designed for solid conductors vs stranded conductors.

I agree.. ?? I don't know, it's been in bx solid and a few times... ??

Bonkers
 

mopowr steve

Senior Member
Location
NW Ohio
Occupation
Electrical contractor
AWG is AWG.

That don't mean you didn't possibly come across a defective product that didn't meet standards.

Also solid vs stranded will be different sized see table 8 in chapter 9 it tells you this as well - and so will a stripper designed for solid conductors vs stranded conductors.

I would concur that it could be possibly defect or mislabeled product. About 2years ago I had a piece of 4/0 alum SEU cable with actual 2/0 conductors within jacket! Yikes!
 

junkhound

Senior Member
Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
Grandma's house, wired in 1913/14, had 15 AWG K&T (and pulled thru old coal-gas lighting pipe), fuse was a piece of solder in line in an asbestos lined cabinet between studs in the outside wall.
 
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