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Thread: panel board as an EGC

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJspark View Post
    I talked to the inspector today about this. He said it is not UL listed to be an EGC.
    State Inspector?
    CircuitRyder --- Unfortunately not all good ideas are code enforceable.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJspark View Post
    I talked to the inspector today about this. He said it is not UL listed to be an EGC.
    As I ponder this further, the more absurd it is. Let's try another example. Let's say you have sub panel fed with a metallic raceway that qualifies as an EGC and you have no wire type EGC in the feeder. Then you add branch circuits that have a wire type EGC so you add a factory ground bar kit to land them on. It should be obvious that whether you have 1 or 4 ground bars with a jumper between them the enclosure will still have to carry the short circuit current back to the feeder conduit. I would ask this inspector would he require a bonding jumper if you only had 1 ground bar and if so where would you connect each end?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJspark View Post
    I talked to the inspector today about this. He said it is not UL listed to be an EGC.
    Well he's incorrect, now is up to you to decide if you want to fight him on it by going over his head or just add the jumpers. What size jumpers did he say that you're "required" to use?
    Rob

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    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJspark View Post
    I talked to the inspector today about this. He said it is not UL listed to be an EGC.
    He might be correct, only because it was never tested for that specific purpose, but no real need to if NEC recognizes it as being suitable to use as part of the EGC path.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    where does it say in the code that metal boxes have to be listed?
    250.118.

    It doesn't have to be listed to use it as a box, but it has to be listed if you want to use it as an EGC. That is, if it's not one of the other items identified in that section.

  6. #36
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    There's a fundamental conflict between the definition of EGC, 250.118, and common practice:

    (2017) Grounding Conductor, Equipment The conductive path(s) that provides a ground-fault current path and connects normally non-current-carrying metal parts of equipment together and to the system grounded conductor or to the grounding electrode conductor, or both.

    (2017) 250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors. The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit conductors shall be one or more of a combination of the following:

    Now "metallic equipment enclosures" clearly "enclose circuit conductors" yet are not listed in 250.118. But common practice is to rely on metallic equipment enclosures as a component of the "ground-fault current path". Hence the conflict.

    This could easily be resolved by adding "metallic equipment enclosures" to the list in 250.118. Right now everyone behaves as if that were the case.

    Cheers, Wayne

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJspark View Post
    I talked to the inspector today about this. He said it is not UL listed to be an EGC.
    If the enclosure is not UL listed to be EGC then essentially what he requires is all of the metallic conduits to have a grounding bushings as they enter the enclosure.
    Edward
    The only thing I know, is the progressive discovery of my ignorance


  8. #38
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    250.96 (A) specifically mentions enclosures, which allows the practice .


    I think this is merely a case of that inspector once read that the building steel is not to be used as a bonding path. A panel board is not '' building steel'', but of course many inspectors once countered with that will begin with the '' we interpret this to mean the panel boards are what this is referring to.....
    85deg. an Sunny today.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wwhitney View Post

    This could easily be resolved by adding "metallic equipment enclosures" to the list in 250.118. Right now everyone behaves as if that were the case.

    Cheers, Wayne
    I kind of agree with you. BTW - They don't use the term "metallic" anymore - now they will only use the term "metal." I'm going to try to add that like you say.

    This debate has gone on for far too long and it should be made much clearer in the code one way or the other. I should point out that nobody here in this forum saw what the inspector saw. If the EC attempted to use a different ground bar (one that is not listed for that particular panel) or if they didn't use the factory threads, of if they didn't use the correct machine screws, the inspector would be 100% correct in requiring the bonding jumper. So while it is easy to generalize, in all reality - we just don't know.

    Got to run, thanks.

  10. #40
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    How many panels, cabinets have provisions for multiple egc bars? I have seen some with 2 different possible mounting locations, if you install an EGC bar say with self tappers anywhere wouldn't that voilate the ul listing of that can by not using it the way it was intended?

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