You're kidding right? (not trying to pick on you petersonra - it looks like a lot of people have looked at this thread, and since nobody else replied, I'm assuming you have the majority on your side.)
Nobody sees anything wrong with these diesel lines being in the same pull box with electric conductors?
Doesn't 300.8 apply?
300.8 Installation of Conductors with Other Systems.
Raceways or cable trays containing electrical conductors
shall not contain any pipe, tube, or equal for steam, water,
air, gas, drainage, or any service other than electrical.
I would say no.
I don't see a diesel line in a raceway or cable tray that also contains electrical conductors in this picture.
I could even accept an argument for allowing a pressurizing air line or smoke detecting line for a classified location.I would say no.
I don't see a diesel line in a raceway or cable tray that also contains electrical conductors in this picture.
Could the manhole itself be considered part of the underground raceway system?
Raceway. An enclosed channel of metal or nonmetallic materials
designed expressly for holding wires, cables, or busbars,
with additional functions as permitted in this Code.
Raceways include, but are not limited to, rigid metal conduit,
rigid nonmetallic conduit, intermediate metal conduit, liquidtight
flexible conduit, flexible metallic tubing, flexible
metal conduit, electrical nonmetallic tubing, electrical metallic
tubing, underfloor raceways, cellular concrete floor raceways,
cellular metal floor raceways, surface raceways, wireways,
and busways.
392.2 Definition.
Cable Tray System. A unit or assembly of units or sections
and associated fittings forming a structural system used to
securely fasten or support cables and raceways.
I also agree with Bob P.
We can't change the name of an enclosure to a raceway just to create a violtion of something we may not like. :happyno:
I will also point out that diesel fuel does not generally require classified location methods.
I, like many in the Northeast store 250 to 500 gallons of diesel fuel (home heating oil) in our basements and there are no electrcal issues created by this storage
I find it hard to accept the code makers didn't intend handholes, pull boxes, splice boxes, and conduit bodies to be considered part of the raceway system.
if they intended 300.8 to apply to anything other than raceways and cable trays, they would not have gone to so much trouble to specifically limit it as they did.
IMO, if this is allowed, you would also have to allow any foreign systems in any electrical boxes. Taken to the extreme, in a dwelling, a plumber could run a 1/2" copper line through a 2"x4" box with a receptacle in it. And of course there is no fill calculation for a plumbing pipe, so you can't disqualify it on those grounds.
Just how would you get the tube into the box? there are no listed fittings to do that and the code requires they be listed.
What if the conduits end in a switchboard? Do we have to allow diesel lines in a switchboard also?
As an owner, you can make any requirements that exceed the minimum NEC requirements that you want to. Just what code provision would prohibit having a diesel line running through a switchboard?
Yes, not classified as explosive, but diesel will burn. And the lines could leak, and any leak will funnel the liquid right into the handhole, where we could have splices for individual conductors. So I see it as quite different than having a tank in the basement.
Just how would the diesel get to its ignition temperature? If the lines were above ground they could still leak into the concrete hole in the ground. Nothing to stop that at all. A properly made up splice does not add any hazard to the situation.
The soldered joints also give me concern. How do we know the plumber didn't burn a hole in the wire while soldering the pipe? Or if he has to fix or replace the soldered joints.
How is this any different than any other soldered tube that is near some other service that might be damaged by the heat of a torch?
And, do we really want a plumber getting into an handhole with energized conductors to do maintenance?
What is your point? If a plumber has to get in the concrete hole in the ground to work on the diesel lines, he has to exercise the appropriate precautions, which would be exactly the same precautions as an electrician would have to exercise if he were to enter the concrete hole in the ground.
There may be good reasons not to do this, but I don't think you are going to find that there is any code that prohibits it.
Just how would you get the tube into the box? there are no listed fittings to do that and the code requires they be listed.
Just what code provision would prohibit having a diesel line running through a switchboard?
In my opinion, I still think its not allowed. But many of your points are just as valid as mine. I'll only add to a couple:
The same way they got diesel piping into that handhole in the photo - inside a conduit that terminates in another box or handhole.
Is nothing sacred anymore!!