Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: 680.25(B) - Swimming Pool Panelboards

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Southampton, NJ
    Posts
    2

    680.25(B) - Swimming Pool Panelboards

    As it relates to installing a remote panel board for a swimming pool does it require ground rods?? We have an inspector that says that it requires a set of ground rods to the panel board. This panel board is mounted on a post and is completely isolated from everything around. It is not mounted to a shed or any other type of building or structure. We would like to determine if this municipality is citing the code properly.
    The panel board is fed by 1" pvc with individual conductors and an insulated equipment grounding conductor with its own over current protection in the main panel. Please advise. Thanks Jeff

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,245
    Imo, the inspector is correct as the panel will fall under a separate structure (see 250.32(B))
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Southampton, NJ
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Imo, the inspector is correct as the panel will fall under a separate structure (see 250.32(B))
    Hello Dennis, Ok so you agree that a totally isolated panel board is going to be considered as a separate structure?? Ok so my issue with this is that we install pools on a regular basis in 2 states and this is the first time anyone has brought this up to install ground rods at the pool panel. So all of the other inspectors that have inspected these pools are incorrect. Now you may understand why we are questioning this code violation. Please advise. Thanks, Jeff
    Last edited by JPerez/Paradise; 07-03-17 at 10:14 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Tennessee NEC:2008
    Posts
    4,163
    It has nothing to do with it being a "pool panel". It has to do with the fact that its not attached to the dwelling/building. It is on a post, and that's considered a structure and according to the definition of structure, the post falls under that. It's the fact that it is a separate structure that calls for it's own grounding system.
    I don't like the rule and think its silly, but it is the code.
    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,245
    This issue has come up many time. If you had a disconnect that fed one piece of equipment then I would not consider a ground rod necessary but when you have a panelboard and are feeding multiple circuits then 2 ground rods would be needed.

    Now why have other inspectors let it go-- probably because they have not thought about it or they disagree with me. I think the nec clarified the definition of structure in the 2017 NEC just a bit.

    Structure. That which is built or constructed, other than equipment.
    I believe what they were getting at here is if you had a post in the ground to use for a disconnect for a septic pump, a/c unit, etc then no ground rod is needed.

    Ground rods , IMO, are not very effective but if it can help a bit to divert surges etc then it is worth it to protect the equipment.
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Park Ridge, NJ
    Posts
    66
    I too like Jeff, install pools in 2 states and not once has an inspector called for ground rods.

    We set a sub-panel (Jandy) to feed multiple devices. We construct a panel board generally 4'x4' to accommodate for items such as transformers, automatic-fill boards, sometimes a pool light deck box, etc..

    Even if the equipment is placed adjacent to the customer's house or garage, etc.. we always set a separate panel board. Mounting on the buildings, I feel, makes an issue if the building is to be painted, re-sided-whatever.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    23,549
    I've always been of the opinion that calling a post in the ground a structure because it is holding up something is a weak argument at best.
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
    Posts
    32,245
    Quote Originally Posted by infinity View Post
    I've always been of the opinion that calling a post in the ground a structure because it is holding up something is a weak argument at best.

    Yes, however, there is a panel. So what is the difference between a remote panel on a shed or a remote panel on a post? It is really the same. It is my opinion that if there is a remote panel then an electrode(s) is necessary
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    23,549
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Yes, however, there is a panel. So what is the difference between a remote panel on a shed or a remote panel on a post? It is really the same. It is my opinion that if there is a remote panel then an electrode(s) is necessary
    Fundamentally I agree with you but the problem is to get to the requirement for a GES you have to have a structure. It would be better if it just stated all remote panels, even on a post, need a GES. If the panel was mounted to a tree no GES would be required. Doesn't make much sense.

    In this photo if one considers the two pieces of strut banged into the earth to be a structure then this is a violation because a single structure cannot have two branch circuits run to.

    Name:  Two Rec's-One Structure.jpg
Views: 191
Size:  106.1 KB
    Rob

    Moderator

    All responses based on the 2014 NEC unless otherwise noted

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Mercer. New Jersey
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Pools View Post
    I too like Jeff, install pools in 2 states and not once has an inspector called for ground rods.

    We set a sub-panel (Jandy) to feed multiple devices. We construct a panel board generally 4'x4' to accommodate for items such as transformers, automatic-fill boards, sometimes a pool light deck box, etc..

    Even if the equipment is placed adjacent to the customer's house or garage, etc.. we always set a separate panel board. Mounting on the buildings, I feel, makes an issue if the building is to be painted, re-sided-whatever.
    We do the same. Recently did one in OP's area with no issues. Never added ground rounds for any pool panels

    Intermatics we put on a post with a switch and outlet. Jandys we put on a panel board, [ more suited to definition of structure], 2 posts and 3-2x12 boards.



    Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •