Type SE cable for an underground feeder

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gregorsc

Member
I want to know, if I run Type SE-r cable 2-2-2-4 Al from main panel thru a basement to an LB or junction box, can I then strip off the sheath and pull the conductors thru Schedule 40 PVC conduit underground to a shed/workshop?
I know I cannot run Type SE cable underground even in conduit, but if I strip the sheath off, from that point aren't they considered individual conductors?
The bare wire will be my EGC, I know it can be bare or insulated aluminum, 250.120 (B), It can not come in contact with the earth or masonry, or where subject to corrosive conditions. Is the inside of an underground conduit corrosive? I know it's considered a wet environment but does that equal corrosive?

What do you think??
 

shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
No can do. SE is not allowed underground. It was never listed for the purpose and they put it in the code.

The stripped back conductors are not listed for the purpose either. They are not MARKED. The cable is listed only as a cable.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
I know of at least one manufacturer of Type SE cable listed to UL 853 that use conductors listed to UL 83. Meaning, you can remove the overall PVC jacket and glass reinforced tape and use the MARKED, nylon sheathed, THHN/THWN insulated conductors individually in raceway applications.

The same applies to their UL 719 - NM cables as well...
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I know of at least one manufacturer of Type SE cable listed to UL 853 that use conductors listed to UL 83. Meaning, you can remove the overall PVC jacket and glass reinforced tape and use the MARKED, nylon sheathed, THHN/THWN insulated conductors individually in raceway applications.

The same applies to their UL 719 - NM cables as well...
So are you going to leave readers hanging or divulge the manufacturer?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I want to know, if I run Type SE-r cable 2-2-2-4 Al from main panel thru a basement to an LB or junction box, can I then strip off the sheath and pull the conductors thru Schedule 40 PVC conduit underground to a shed/workshop?
I know I cannot run Type SE cable underground even in conduit, but if I strip the sheath off, from that point aren't they considered individual conductors?
The bare wire will be my EGC, I know it can be bare or insulated aluminum, 250.120 (B), It can not come in contact with the earth or masonry, or where subject to corrosive conditions. Is the inside of an underground conduit corrosive? I know it's considered a wet environment but does that equal corrosive?

What do you think??

As others have said the conductors are not even marked - they may or may not be suitable otherwise. That bare aluminum will disintegrate in a fairly short time if in an underground raceway with moisture in it. Seen cases where people pulled overhead triplex through an underground conduit. Bare conductor always fails and is not much left but the steel messenger strand when I find them.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I know of at least one manufacturer of Type SE cable listed to UL 853 that use conductors listed to UL 83. Meaning, you can remove the overall PVC jacket and glass reinforced tape and use the MARKED, nylon sheathed, THHN/THWN insulated conductors individually in raceway applications.

The same applies to their UL 719 - NM cables as well...
Does that really work that way? If there is nothing in the listing and labeling instructions that specifically permits changing the listed product from a cable assembly to single conductors, I would hang a red tag if the contractor did that.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Does that really work that way? If there is nothing in the listing and labeling instructions that specifically permits changing the listed product from a cable assembly to single conductors, I would hang a red tag if the contractor did that.
If the individual conductors are properly labeled, why would you reject it? The only difference between that and using manufactured-as individual conductors would be fewer splices.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I always thought that bare aluminum was the issue with the ser being used underground in conduit because of the potential mineral contamination from water entering the cpipe
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Does that really work that way? If there is nothing in the listing and labeling instructions that specifically permits changing the listed product from a cable assembly to single conductors, I would hang a red tag if the contractor did that.

As a previous AHJ, I wrote plenty of violation notices regarding this issue. I would commonly find the unmarked individual conductors of NM cable used in outdoor whips between the A/C unit and disconnecting means.

And trust me, as an employee of NEMA, the very last thing you will ever hear me promote is the field modification of a listed product.

This, however, is a unique case. Myself and reps from UL, ETI and the IAEI took a tour of this manufacturer's facility during the Southern Section Meeting back in October. This particular manufacturer produces individual conductors and cable assemblies. When manufacturing the cable assemblies, they simply use the listed and marked individual conductors you would otherwise use off the reel. Not all manufacturers employ this technique. And, there is nothing in the product standard or the listing instructions for SE & NM cables that prohibit this practice

So, if you happen to have an unused portion of this manufacturer's NM or SE cable laying around, but are in need of individual conductors, you can remove the outer jacket and wrap and you are all set. They are EXACTLY the same conductors you would buy on reels.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
If the individual conductors are properly labeled, why would you reject it? The only difference between that and using manufactured-as individual conductors would be fewer splices.
Because of the additional likely hood of damage to the conductor insulation when the jacket is being removed. Maybe if the cable had a "rip cord" like some tray cable does, I would be ok with it.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Because of the additional likely hood of damage to the conductor insulation when the jacket is being removed. Maybe if the cable had a "rip cord" like some tray cable does, I would be ok with it.
Still a bit of a stretch if inspecting only Code compliance.

If you were a company Quality Assurance inspector, you'd have a legitimate, but unfounded claim at that point. Megger verification ensues based on your claim...
 

Canton

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrician
Because of the additional likely hood of damage to the conductor insulation when the jacket is being removed. Maybe if the cable had a "rip cord" like some tray cable does, I would be ok with it.

Why....? Not much different than stripping back two or three foot to terminate in a panel or disconnect. Why the extra scrutiny?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Why....? Not much different than stripping back two or three foot to terminate in a panel or disconnect. Why the extra scrutiny?
Two to 3' within an enclosure I would be fine with...a length stripped and installed in a raceway I would not accept.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Still a bit of a stretch if inspecting only Code compliance.

If you were a company Quality Assurance inspector, you'd have a legitimate, but unfounded claim at that point. Megger verification ensues based on your claim...
If I don't find anything in the White Book that specifically permits this, I would cite 110.3(B).

I would accept a megger test as long as you filled the raceway with salt water first:). A megger does not detect insulation damage unless there is a current path. You can have bare conductor and hot have a current path.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
If I don't find anything in the White Book that specifically permits this, I would cite 110.3(B).

I would accept a megger test as long as you filled the raceway with salt water first:). A megger does not detect insulation damage unless there is a current path. You can have bare conductor and hot have a current path.
Sound rationale, but I think we both know that is going well beyond Code compliance. :happyyes:
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Does anyone not see an issue with bare aluminum being in contact with the water in the conduit that may have seeped in from the earth?

I thought one of the manufacturers-southwire? - stated this as the main reason you could not run ser in the ground in conduit-- even wrapped
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Does anyone not see an issue with bare aluminum being in contact with the water in the conduit that may have seeped in from the earth?

I thought one of the manufacturers-southwire? - stated this as the main reason you could not run ser in the ground in conduit-- even wrapped
Yes... just didn't comment because I considered your bringing it up as covered. :)
 
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