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Thread: GFCI Distance Too Far?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsy View Post
    Receptacle-connected pool pumps shall be GFCI protected since 2002, hardwired since 2008, NEC 680.21/22

    Originally Posted by Jraef
    Cable capacitance would have been a problem from day one..

    When do GFCI's have trouble with wire-length capacitance? Not found in GFCI listing, or instruction.
    Every install has different characteristics that will impact this. But long circuit lengths will have more troubles as a general rule then short circuit lengths. 100 feet maybe fine load side of a GFCI, but 150 or 200 and you may see more tripping for no apparent reason but is possibly capacitive leakage current. All depends on how good of a capacitor ends up being developed in how things lay out.


    Is that the same capacitance shown as voltage by high-impedance volt-meters when power is off, vs low impedance solenoid or Wiggy meters?
    Most of the time that is capacitively coupled by an adjacent circuit that is energized.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbanano View Post
    Run #10 and put a dedicated twist lock plug on a normal breaker.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    680.21(C) GFCI Protection:


    Outlets supplying pool pump motors connected to single-phase, 120-volt through 240-volt branch circuits, whether by receptacle or by direct connection, shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
    GFCI protection would still be required, even if it were direct wired.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDB3 View Post
    The closer that you can locate the GFCI protection (by code) to where it will be used, the better. As previous post said, if it worked for a year, then the distance should not be the problem.
    The code says that?

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GerryB View Post
    The code says that?
    No, the code only requires GFCI protection or not.

    Imo, it's better to protect with a breaker at the source than with a receptacle since the branch circuit conductors are protected in their entirety.
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    No, the code only requires GFCI protection or not.

    Imo, it's better to protect with a breaker at the source than with a receptacle since the branch circuit conductors are protected in their entirety.
    GFCI is for protecting people, the conductors don't need GFCI protection, just short circuit, ground fault, and overload protection is all the conductors need.

    That said the longer the circuit the more subject it is to capacitive leakage and non intended tripping of a GFCI if it is at the beginning of the circuit.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwired View Post
    GFCI is for protecting people, the conductors don't need GFCI protection, just short circuit, ground fault, and overload protection is all the conductors need.

    That said the longer the circuit the more subject it is to capacitive leakage and non intended tripping of a GFCI if it is at the beginning of the circuit.
    Quite true however if one were to cause a fault upstream of a GFCI receptacle, or come into contact with bare conductors, say from rodent damage, poor installation or whatever reason, they wouldn't be protected against shock whereas they would with a GFCI breaker.

    At what distance do GFCI devices become a problem? Surely there are installations with 200' of wire on the load side of a GFCI receptacle, or 200' of wire from a breaker, and they work. Is there a hard limit of distance in the instructions?

    eta: Apparently SqD GFI breakers are for 250' or less:

    http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/faqs/FA117270/
    Electricians do it until it Hertz!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFletcher View Post
    Quite true however if one were to cause a fault upstream of a GFCI receptacle, or come into contact with bare conductors, say from rodent damage, poor installation or whatever reason, they wouldn't be protected against shock whereas they would with a GFCI breaker.

    At what distance do GFCI devices become a problem? Surely there are installations with 200' of wire on the load side of a GFCI receptacle, or 200' of wire from a breaker, and they work. Is there a hard limit of distance in the instructions?

    eta: Apparently SqD GFI breakers are for 250' or less:

    http://www.schneider-electric.us/en/faqs/FA117270/
    Every circuit is going to have it's own differences. Rodent damage, poor installation, etc. can happen even when GFCI protection isn't required.

    When GFCI protection is required the intent is to protect the user. Voltage on an EGC will still be a shock hazard to the user even when there is GFCI protection, which is sometimes what happens when there is problems at a marina or dock even when there is GFCI protection.

  8. #38
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    Capacitive leakage is real

    I had thought I recalled the 250' figure for length as was quoted for SQ-D. Thanks.

    When ever there is a GFCI issue it seems so rare that anyone actually measures the leakage current.

    I converted the coil used in a GFCI outlet to a cheap circuit to measure leakage current. Because I am cheap. I believe differential leakage meters are around $300 or more?

    Christmas lights are a great example. My father in-law puts up too many strings. Eventually the leakage gets high enough - then add a rain & pop.
    We installed 4 separate GFCI outlets to "divide up the leakage".

    I used my cheapo leakage meter and could watch the leakage raise over a minute or so from 3,4, 5, 6 ma and then not too long after a trip occurred.
    - Resistance is Futile ..... (if less than < 1 ohm) -

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