Is PV considered a Service?

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csoc64

Senior Member
Location
northeast
Had a discussion with an AHJ the other day whether or not bond bushings were required on an installation. He told me that they were required because I was utilizing portions of concentric knockouts on a disconnect. I thought he was thinking about 250.97, but when I said I was under 250 volts (240V Enphase Microinverter system), he told me that 250.92(B) applies because the PV system is considered a service. I disagreed based on NEC definition of a service. He couldn't quote me code reference otherwise, but he made me put them on anyway. Have I missed anything here? Has anyone else run into this issue?
 
Had a discussion with an AHJ the other day whether or not bond bushings were required on an installation. He told me that they were required because I was utilizing portions of concentric knockouts on a disconnect. I thought he was thinking about 250.97, but when I said I was under 250 volts (240V Enphase Microinverter system), he told me that 250.92(B) applies because the PV system is considered a service. I disagreed based on NEC definition of a service. He couldn't quote me code reference otherwise, but he made me put them on anyway. Have I missed anything here? Has anyone else run into this issue?

Is it a "line side tap"? if so yes they are service entrance conductors. See 230.40 Ex 5.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Where does that section define PV supply as a service?

Never said it did. Just a code section to help define what the PV system is considered as a addtional power source.
Are you complaining about bonding or the inspectors code section? Did you bond? and if so why?
 

csoc64

Senior Member
Location
northeast
Never said it did. Just a code section to help define what the PV system is considered as a addtional power source.
Are you complaining about bonding or the inspectors code section? Did you bond? and if so why?
Not complaining, just looking for any possible validation of inspectors' claim that the PV is considered a service and that I have missed something in the code, since he could not provide a code reference for me. I had to bond, because he wouldn't pass it otherwise. Sometimes you just have to suck it up, do what he says, state your objection, and move on.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Not complaining, just looking for any possible validation of inspectors' claim that the PV is considered a service and that I have missed something in the code, since he could not provide a code reference for me. I had to bond, because he wouldn't pass it otherwise. Sometimes you just have to suck it up, do what he says, state your objection, and move on.
I'd be asking for justification of why he thinks this is a service. As you said NEC definition of service doesn't include this type of source, so I would want some other reference to buy into his reasoning, and if he still will not at least agree to consider some researching and come back with some valid reasoning - I am going to be having a conversation with his superior, where it goes after that IDK, but if he can't come up with a reasonable response for a reasonable question....I don't plan to pay for any incompetence and/or laziness on his part, and want him to get it right and not just "his way" anyhow.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
csoc64
Other than the inspectors wanting can you tell me why you would need to bond? I would agree the inspector should have adequate code for his request. Since he cannot give you a reason I would like to know from you if there is a valid code section to make you bond. You didn't bond before requested right? I would expect the same of yourself as from him on knowing the answer.
 

csoc64

Senior Member
Location
northeast
csoc64
Other than the inspectors wanting can you tell me why you would need to bond? I would agree the inspector should have adequate code for his request. Since he cannot give you a reason I would like to know from you if there is a valid code section to make you bond. You didn't bond before requested right? I would expect the same of yourself as from him on knowing the answer.
After doing my research, I am not aware of any code section that would require bonding in this case, which is why I come to this forum to ask the question, as I often miss things in the code. That being said, this is where I am coming from: Since I am under 250V, 250.97 would not apply, and if indeed we are not talking about a service then 250.92(B) would also not apply. I am not aware of any other applicable code sections. As a practical matter, the only reason I can think of to bond would be that you don't trust the integrity of the remaining ko's of the eccentric or concentric knockouts, and I have bonded in cases where I have this concern. Anything else I'm missing here?
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
After doing my research, I am not aware of any code section that would require bonding in this case, which is why I come to this forum to ask the question, as I often miss things in the code. That being said, this is where I am coming from: Since I am under 250V, 250.97 would not apply, and if indeed we are not talking about a service then 250.92(B) would also not apply. I am not aware of any other applicable code sections. As a practical matter, the only reason I can think of to bond would be that you don't trust the integrity of the remaining ko's of the eccentric or concentric knockouts, and I have bonded in cases where I have this concern. Anything else I'm missing here?

From what I've gathered about your install -- I agree with the rational
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
After doing my research, I am not aware of any code section that would require bonding in this case, which is why I come to this forum to ask the question, as I often miss things in the code. That being said, this is where I am coming from: Since I am under 250V, 250.97 would not apply, and if indeed we are not talking about a service then 250.92(B) would also not apply. I am not aware of any other applicable code sections. As a practical matter, the only reason I can think of to bond would be that you don't trust the integrity of the remaining ko's of the eccentric or concentric knockouts, and I have bonded in cases where I have this concern. Anything else I'm missing here?

Yes about the ko's, and see 250.12 and 250.96 with respect to removing non-conductive paint (use a bonding bushing and you don't have to worry about your connector adequately bonding the raceway) . But still, it has nothing to do with PV being a service.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Yes about the ko's, and see 250.12 and 250.96 with respect to removing non-conductive paint (use a bonding bushing and you don't have to worry about your connector adequately bonding the raceway) . But still, it has nothing to do with PV being a service.
250.12 states in part, "...or be connected by means of fittings designed so as to make such removal unnecessary."

AFAIK, all locknuts are designed for such. Yes, some better than others. What it comes down to is, if the connector is listed for grounding, paint removal is not required. Also, if enclosure is listed for grounding, bonding around eccentric and concentric KO's is not required unless specifically required by Code.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
250.12 states in part, "...or be connected by means of fittings designed so as to make such removal unnecessary."

AFAIK, all locknuts are designed for such. Yes, some better than others. What it comes down to is, if the connector is listed for grounding, paint removal is not required. Also, if enclosure is listed for grounding, bonding around eccentric and concentric KO's is not required unless specifically required by Code.

As fiddly as bonding bushings are, they probably cost me less labor than providing all that documentation to an inspector. :slaphead:plus, for us 250.97 requires them more than half the time.
 
An inspector is required to provide in writing the code section(s) of any violation. I am sure he is as well. If you are concerned ask the inspection agency to provide the section number for you.

PV is not a service as per the NEC, you are correct in regards to the definition.
 
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