Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 110

Thread: Engineer VS. AHJ

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbridled View Post
    Thank you for all your replies.
    In the past, I have simply issued a VE request to the engineer with price changes. Some get approved, some get denied.
    This question is hypothetical in nature and I believe this forum has made it clear.
    Thank you.

    Now, another hypothetical question.

    Lets say an engineer under designed a project and his design would not meet NEC requirements.
    Can the AHJ fail the installation for not meeting code even though the drawings were stamped by an EE?
    You betcha. In the end, every code enforcement agency puts the onus on the installer for a code-compliant installation. Also, the next set of plans for a project I see that don't carry a phrase to the effect that "Installer shall provide a code-compliant installation suitable for the intended use" or something similar, will be the first set I've ever seen.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,191
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbridled View Post
    Thank you for all your replies.
    Now, another hypothetical question.

    Lets say an engineer under designed a project and his design would not meet NEC requirements.
    Can the AHJ fail the installation for not meeting code even though the drawings were stamped by an EE?
    Yes. That is precisely what an AHJ has the authority to do. To cite violations of applicable codes, regardless of who caused it to be built that way. AHJ's do not cite people, they cite buildings. "The building doesn't comply with the NEC, because it doesn't meet this rule".

    It is not an AHJ's job to catch you not meeting an overly conservative design provided by the engineer. That is a job for other people on the project team, hired by the owner. It is the AHJ's job to cite the construction when it doesn't meet code.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    6,601
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbridled View Post

    Now, another hypothetical question.

    Lets say an engineer under designed a project and his design would not meet NEC requirements.
    Can the AHJ fail the installation for not meeting code even though the drawings were stamped by an EE?
    Yes, the AHJ can fail an installation for not meeting the code.

    IMO, I believe in most cases, public safety is enhanced when the engineer, AHJ, and contractor all agree that a particular installation is safe and code compliant.

    The typical workflow of design by an engineer, plan review by the AHJ, installation by a trained electrician, and inspection by AHJ tends to work pretty well.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Placerville, CA, USA
    Posts
    17,635
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingenieur View Post
    in general, yes
    One exception being where the plan set explicitly asked for a variance from NEC for plausible reasons and it was granted in plan review.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    7,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbridled View Post

    Lets say an engineer under designed a project and his design would not meet NEC requirements.
    Can the AHJ fail the installation for not meeting code even though the drawings were stamped by an EE?
    Of course, but then it would be the engineer's fault that it failed, not yours. The best scenario would be for you to review the plans and find the error before anything gets built, and then confer with the engineer to get it corrected in the plans. I work closely with electricians and if they find something I have missed, I am very grateful.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,170
    Quote Originally Posted by steve66 View Post
    Yes, the AHJ can fail an installation for not meeting the code.
    ...........
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    You betcha. In the end, every code enforcement agency puts the onus on the installer for a code-compliant installation. Also, the next set of plans for a project I see that don't carry a phrase to the effect that "Installer shall provide a code-compliant installation suitable for the intended use" or something similar, will be the first set I've ever seen.
    I totaly agree with gadfly,
    I have yet to see a set of plans that don't place all the blame with the contractor~

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by gadfly56 View Post
    You betcha. In the end, every code enforcement agency puts the onus on the installer for a code-compliant installation. Also, the next set of plans for a project I see that don't carry a phrase to the effect that "Installer shall provide a code-compliant installation suitable for the intended use" or something similar, will be the first set I've ever seen.
    around here the owner bears responsibilty if he wants his occupancy permit

    those clauses seldom hold up in arbitration/court
    as long as notice was served to the owner/engineer
    most are discovered during pre-bid rfi's
    if subtle and missed by both parties the owner pays
    the contractor is not responsible for the engineers e&o

    all kind of bogus crap in contract docs
    like delay damages, ie, $100/day past beneficial occ date
    contracts must be fair to both parties
    if there are delay penalties there must be bonuses for early completion

    we had one of the best lawyers in the field review our docs
    west point, viet nam
    msce plus pe, over 12 years, taught engineering in the evenings
    then law school
    http://www.lawyerdb.org/Lawyer/Brian-Ashbaugh/
    kept me out of trouble lol
    met him while taking a grad course in engr & construction law
    Last edited by Ingenieur; 08-07-17 at 06:25 PM.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,170
    Quote Originally Posted by Ingenieur View Post
    around here the owner bears responsibilty if he wants his occupancy permit

    those clauses seldom hold up in arbitration/court
    as long as notice was served to the owner/engineer
    most are discovered during pre-bid rfi's
    if subtle and missed by both parties the owner pays
    the contractor is not responsible for the engineers e&o

    all kind of bogus crap in contract docs
    like delay damages, ie, $100/day past beneficial occ date
    contracts must be fair to both parties
    if there are delay penalties there must be bonuses for early completion

    we had one of the best lawyers in the field review our docs
    west point, viet nam
    msce plus pe, over 12 years, taught engineering in the evenings
    then law school
    http://www.lawyerdb.org/Lawyer/Brian-Ashbaugh/
    kept me out of trouble lol
    met him while taking a grad course in engr & construction law
    Yea but you are an engineer and they usually prevail if the contractor does not have written documentation of a change that was made!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Wilmington, NC USA
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by Unbridled View Post

    Lets say an engineer under designed a project and his design would not meet NEC requirements.
    Can the AHJ fail the installation for not meeting code even though the drawings were stamped by an EE?
    In theory, the AHJ's plans reviewer should have caught it before the permit was issued. The 2nd person that should have caught it would be the EC. If it got past those 2 and the EI catches it in the field, then a disgruntled EE will most likely be culpable but probably will cite the clause that says the contractor is responsible for all mistakes (sarcasm).

    Push comes to shove and things get settled or the lawyers get involved then everybody loses.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrasparky View Post
    Yea but you are an engineer and they usually prevail if the contractor does not have written documentation of a change that was made!
    I've worked both sides
    contracting 10+ years
    consulting close to 20

    do NOT proceed without written authorization
    an email is sufficient
    if he won't put it in writing do not trust him

    I had a good working relationship with most contractors
    if The ec owed me I would hold the credit until the end
    chances are I would owe him for some co's
    we would negotiate a settlement at the end
    private work only
    public work my hands were tied, EVERYTHING was done by the book
    Last edited by Ingenieur; 08-07-17 at 09:12 PM.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •