Dwelling refrigerator

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Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
What do you call it if the refrigerator is moved to another room/area? (Other than a violation :roll:)
I don't understand-- as I stated most refrigerator are rated much less than 12 amps. I believe they are 6 or 7 amps or so. It would not affect the moving of the refrigerator. I am not sure how that got thrown in the mix.

I agree if there is a refrigerator out there rated 13 amps then it would be an issue
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I don't understand-- as I stated most refrigerator are rated much less than 12 amps. I believe they are 6 or 7 amps or so. It would not affect the moving of the refrigerator. I am not sure how that got thrown in the mix.

I agree if there is a refrigerator out there rated 13 amps then it would be an issue
You are mixing two different issues being discussed. The one you replied to is regarding whether a refrigerator 15A IBC is an SABC or not.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I agree it is an IBC, but it is still in the SABC section

I agree

and nothing there states that it becomes a general purpose branch circuit.

I agree

this makes it an "individual outlet, small appliance branch circuit" if you want to call it that.

No, the exception to the rule tells us directly it we can supply the outlet with an IBC.

To me this as as easy as it gets yet smart and often you like to make things as complicated as possible for reasons I cannot fathom. :lol:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
What do you call it if the refrigerator is moved to another room/area? (Other than a violation :roll:)

Are you asking what I would call a receptacle located in a dwelling unit kitchen, in the vacant spot that is clearly intended for a refrigerator?

You can't be serious.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If the refrigerator is in any of the rooms mentioned in 210.52(B) it is on a SABC. Exception allows for this refrigerator to be on an individual 15 amp circuit, which I believe is still a SABC, but not need be counted as an additional SABC for load calculations, unless it is a situation of it being required to be on an individual branch circuit because it is a monster of a fridge - IOW it is required to be because of 210.23(A)(1).May not even be a refrigerator in the kitchen itself.

If no refrigerator exists in any rooms mentioned in 210.52(B), then any refrigerator in any other space is not on a SABC, but a monster fridge could still make 210.23(A)(1) kick in.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Are you asking what I would call a receptacle located in a dwelling unit kitchen, in the vacant spot that is clearly intended for a refrigerator?

You can't be serious.
I am serious. You're the only one saying it is clearly intended for a refrigerator. I made no such indication of that.

What if it is not clearly intended for a refrigerator? Just appears to be another kitchen receptacle as far as the homeowner is concerned.

Then there's 210.11...
(C) Dwelling Units.

(1) Small-Appliance Branch Circuits.
In addition to the
number of branch circuits required by other parts of this
section, two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits
shall be provided for all receptacle outlets specified by
210.52(B)
.
The exception permits a receptacle for refrigerator to be on a 15A individual branch circuit rather than a 20A multi-outlet circuit. Other than being rated 15A, what makes this any different than a 20A IBC for anything else in the kitchen (other than those receptacles eliminated from consideration under 210.52 general). Each receptacle could be a 20A IBC SABC.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I agree



I agree



No, the exception to the rule tells us directly it we can supply the outlet with an IBC.

To me this as as easy as it gets yet smart and often you like to make things as complicated as possible for reasons I cannot fathom. :lol:

It kind of doesn't really matter when applying 210.52 requirements, but when trying to do load calculations it does matter whether or not it is considered an additional SABC.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
It kind of doesn't really matter when applying 210.52 requirements, but when trying to do load calculations it does matter whether or not it is considered an additional SABC.
Correct. Even though it is permitted to be excluded from calculation, it's still an indication, for all intents and purposes, it is an SABC as the exclusion is permitted, not required.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Correct. Even though it is permitted to be excluded from calculation, it's still an indication, for all intents and purposes, it is an SABC as the exclusion is permitted, not required.


Interesting that mike holt has the refrigerator listed in the dwelling calculation along with water heaters etc.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Interesting that mike holt has the refrigerator listed in the dwelling calculation along with water heaters etc.

As I have mentioned earlier that may be necessary if you have a refrigerator large enough rating to make 210.23(A)(1) kick in. Otherwise normally I see it as being acceptable to include it with the required SABC's . But if it requires a separate branch circuit and if it truly an additional SABC the load for SABC's for art 220 calculations is 1500 VA which is less then the 1620VA we would have for actual load if it were a 16 amp refrigerator@120 volts.

Kind of a rare occurrence I agree, but is a little bit of a hole in the code that doesn't seem to make sense if that should happen. I also don't believe an extra 120VA mistake makes or breaks the project unless maybe you do it multiple times on a large multifamily dwelling.
 
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