Unqualified Persons and PV Arrays

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Zee

Senior Member
Location
CA
I would never support taxes for solar.
There is one government incentive: a tax credit of 30%.
That is actually part of the taxes you pay being refunded back to you.
And now i am guilty of discussing politics, too! No more.
 

mivey

Senior Member
Where do you get your "facts"? If you want to talk about government "handouts", the subsidies given to the oil and gas industries (as if they needed it) by the government make all the tax breaks and other incentives granted to the solar industry look like pennies in the sofa cushions.
Where do you get your facts? Do you have some numbers you can share? Not just total dollar amounts but a better comparison like percentages and the basis for the breaks (jobs creation, etc.)?
 

mivey

Senior Member
I would never support taxes for solar.
There is one government incentive: a tax credit of 30%.
That is actually part of the taxes you pay being refunded back to you.
And now i am guilty of discussing politics, too! No more.
Tax credits against what paid taxes? I suspect they are from different pots of monies wouldn't you?

If that is your stand then why support taxes for either? Give me my money back and let me decide where to spend it.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Where do you get your facts? Do you have some numbers you can share? Not just total dollar amounts but a better comparison like percentages and the basis for the breaks (jobs creation, etc.)?

Why aren't the total dollar amounts valid?
 

mivey

Senior Member
Why aren't the total dollar amounts valid?
Because of scale differences. If I told you I made $100,000 in profits that gives you no frame of reference. This profit for a company with $5,000,000 in sales is different when compared to the same amount for a company with $500,000 in sales.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Oil companies are among the most profitable corporations the world has ever seen. Why should they get any subsidies?
 

mivey

Senior Member
Oil companies are among the most profitable corporations the world has ever seen. Why should they get any subsidies?
Again, where do you get your facts? Facts, not talking points. For example, from:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/10/20/big-oil-isnt-as-profitable-as-everyone-thinks/#

Rich Smith said:
And yet, despite all those costs, big, integrated oil producers like ExxonMobil (XOM) still manage to report eye-popping profits at the end of each year -- $41 billion for Exxon last year, $25.7 billion for BP (BP) -- even the smaller ConocoPhillips (COP) managed to tuck away $12.4 billion for a rainy day.
...
Americans have complained for years about the Big Oil conspiracy to rip off consumers
...
What many people fail to notice, though, is the amount that Exxon (and its peers) must spend to create these profits.
...
In 2011, Exxon took in $433.5 billion in revenues from its oil business...Factor in the $31 billion income tax check Exxon wrote...Exxon ended up with "only" $41 billion on the bottom line.

Sure, sure. That's still a pretty big number. But it doesn't make Exxon as flush as you might think.
...
When you consider that $41 billion is less than 10% of the revenues that Exxon started with, it turns out that Big Oil isn't really all that profitable a business.
...
For example, car companies aren't often considered profit monsters...Yet somehow, Ford Motor (F) manages to earn a profit margin of better than 13% on its cars and trucks.
...
What about the granddaddy of all profit machines, Apple (AAPL)? It boasts a jaw-dropping profit margin of 27%...Yet somehow, you never hear consumers wailing and gnashing their teeth, demanding that Apple's dominance of the smartphone market be "broken up" or otherwise "regulated."

Present facts and we can discuss the merits and pick them apart, otherwise we are just slinging opinions around.
 

Electric-Light

Senior Member
I would never support taxes for solar.
There is one government incentive: a tax credit of 30%.
That is actually part of the taxes you pay being refunded back to you.
And now i am guilty of discussing politics, too! No more.


Like I said, status symbol subsidy for rich people.

$40,000 solar system x 30% credit means the applicant gets a $12,000 buying credit from taxes he would owe otherwise. If his taxes are below $12,000, he's not going to get 30% of the system paid for.

Where's the option to use income tax to pay for 30% of a Rolex?
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
This discussion is veering into the realm of the political. I apologize for my part in steering it that way.

Either you believe in the viability and worthiness (and necessity in the long term) of renewable energy or you don't. If you don't then we will just have to agree to disagree.
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Like I said, status symbol subsidy for rich people.

$40,000 solar system x 30% credit means the applicant gets a $12,000 buying credit from taxes he would owe otherwise. If his taxes are below $12,000, he's not going to get 30% of the system paid for.

Where's the option to use income tax to pay for 30% of a Rolex?

You really ought to keep your mouth shut. Solar is saving a lot of middle class people a lot of money. Besides which, the reasons the government is funding solar are obvious: fossil fuels are going to run out and they are destroying the ecosystems we depend on for survival.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Lets keep this from going south guys. It is on the verge of being closed and will be if it continues on this road. Thanks
 

Zee

Senior Member
Location
CA
Lets keep this from going south guys. It is on the verge of being closed and will be if it continues on this road. Thanks
Right.
Thank you.
May i recommend any number of excellent forums for economics or pol.sci. debates. These are all valuable points and need to be made...elsewhere.
This is an Electrical Code forum.
I apologize myself. Couldn't resist! :dunce:


I think we were just agreeing that panels either should or should not be washed by either trained or untrained personnel, depending on accessibility/fall danger,
dirtiness,
employed technology (module-level shut-down in optimizers and micros vs. string),
grounded vs ungrounded arrays,
and precautions taken.:thumbsup:
 

SolarPro

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
And be careful using weed whackers around PV arrays. The debris you kick up can damage the module backsheet and lead to moisture intrusion. If you can't afford a weed barrier, the QCells backsheet outperformed that of a Japanese competitor in limited weed whacker resistance field testing, which is performed with small stones whipped around underneath the array. (The backsheet that failed, however, was a brand touted for its reliability and performance?so go figure.)
 
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