Using Romex in a 6-Story Condo

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DWEames

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
I'm having a hard time understanding the Classifications of the NFPA in regards to whether I can use Romex on a Condominium that is constructed entirely of concrete. Could someone please point me in some definitive direction? What was the rule about about anything over 3 stories and how has it changed? I assume this all has to do with Fire Ratings.
 

macmikeman

Senior Member
If you have an honest AHJ you should be good to go, but many are not ''down'' with it even though the NEC is. Be prepared to hear caustic smoke woes and the like when you get turned down.
 

DWEames

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
I'm not sure...does AHJ mean the Authority Having Jurisdiction? From what I've heard they shouldn't have a problem with it. But I was hoping to better verse myself on what the NEC says. And so far all I've seen in the NEC is a reference to Type III, IV, V Buildings in the NFPA. When I read Article of 220 in the NFPA I see a lot about Fire Ratings, and not so much about the amount of stories or levels, or the concrete. Does the NFPA delineate on Fire Ratings of Materials?
 

MasterTheNEC

CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
Location
McKinney, Texas
Occupation
CEO
I'm not sure...does AHJ mean the Authority Having Jurisdiction? From what I've heard they shouldn't have a problem with it. But I was hoping to better verse myself on what the NEC says. And so far all I've seen in the NEC is a reference to Type III, IV, V Buildings in the NFPA. When I read Article of 220 in the NFPA I see a lot about Fire Ratings, and not so much about the amount of stories or levels, or the concrete. Does the NFPA delineate on Fire Ratings of Materials?
I guess I have to ask this question....Do you own a copy of the National Electrical Code? The reason I ask is due to the references you are giving and wondering why you would be in Article 220 if you are asking about the use of Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable for use in a commercial building.

The first answer lies in Section 334.10(3)....next in order to understand what Type III, IV and V construction is the best reference would be to review the International Building Code (IBC) as that governs the construction (for the most part) of the buildings. However, you can also look at Informative Annex E in the NEC for classic descriptions as well.

Reading Section 334.10(3) is rather simple, comply with the approach and understand a few things. Is the building being built out of entirely concrete because it is required to be or because it is elected to be by the designer due to height limitations and so on. Once that is established then you can move on, some buildings are built to Type I and II Construction but could have been Type III, IV or V but elected to go for Type I or II.....if that was the case then nonmetallic -sheathed cable is fine.....just follow the rules in Article 334.

If the building is required to be of the Type I or II Construction then that does not rule out the use of Type NM Cable(regardless of height...but beware of installing above suspended ceilings), you just have to follow the rules demanded in Section 334.10(5) and install a raceway that is permitted in that type of construction first...just keep in mind of securing and supporting rules and other limitations found in Article 334...most notably those in Section 334.12.

Anyway...hope I did not confuse you...and I am sure my words will be picked apart looking for accidental misspoken examples...but it's a start for you.

P.S. I would not worry about this building being a Type III, IV or V Construction....regardless of knowing those are associated with wood framing....the number of stories alone tell you it can't be those types. I would recommend using Type MC Cable if you are looking for flexibility and easy of installation.
 
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DWEames

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
Can someone lead me to a guide that describes the flash ratings of thermal barriers? This particular building has 5/8" sheetrock. It would definitely be easier for me to install romex. The concrete is incredibly hard, I would have to drill holes for support of all boxes, straps, etc...Not to mention the wall I'm installing UC lights on is only an 1 1/2 " furred out with wood over concrete. That would be the most tricky thing.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Drilling concrete for supports is a breeze, even if it is 5000 lb concrete such as you find in parking garages if you employ the proper tooling(Hilti brand imho...).

But make sure that what you are drilling into is not pre- or post-tensioned concrete. Or if it is, know where the tension members are.
Drilling into a tension rod or cable with a drill or hole saw is not a good thing to do....
(The words 'parking structure' raised a red flag.)
 

DWEames

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
Thanks for that advice on drilling into concrete. I hope that I don't have to. My real question here is whether I can run romex in this building. which seems to me to be a Type I Construction Condominium. The sheetrock is 5/8 " thick on wooden 2x4 in the ceiling. The walls are all made of metal studs. Anyone? Romex or MC?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The building will be classified by the building department in the town. It is as simple as that. If the town or city has the building classified as one of the ones in Section 334.10 then that is all you need.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
The building will be classified by the building department in the town. It is as simple as that. If the town or city has the building classified as one of the ones in Section 334.10 then that is all you need.

But it is not that easy.

The building might be built as one type when it could have been built as another type.


An example, many of the commercial buildings we do are built of steel and concrete by choice even though building codes would allow them to built of wood. When that is the case NM is allowed.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
But it is not that easy.

The building might be built as one type when it could have been built as another type.


An example, many of the commercial buildings we do are built of steel and concrete by choice even though building codes would allow them to built of wood. When that is the case NM is allowed.

I thought the classification of the building mattered and that was all. New one on me:thumbsup:
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I thought the classification of the building mattered and that was all. New one on me:thumbsup:

This is the code section

334.10(3) Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V
construction except as prohibited in 334.12. Cables
shall be concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that
provide a thermal barrier of material that has at least a
15-minute finish rating as identified in listings of firerated
assemblies.

So you might be able to run NM in a type I building if the building codes would have allowed it to be a type III building.

That is the rub, our prints will tell us only what type it is, not what type it could be.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
...
So you might be able to run NM in a type I building if the building codes would have allowed it to be a type III building.

That is the rub, our prints will tell us only what type it is, not what type it could be.

That is not quite correct. The plans will identify the minimum construction type required which is a function of occupancy classification, height and area. You can have a Type V building constructed of nothing other than concrete and steel. It's still a Type V building. There's a whole lot more to construction type than what wiring method is used.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
That is not quite correct. The plans will identify the minimum construction type required which is a function of occupancy classification, height and area.

I won't fight you on this, but it is my recollection that the plans I have seen identify the construction type being constructed not the building type it could be.


You can have a Type V building constructed of nothing other than concrete and steel. It's still a Type V building.

That is not my recollection.


There's a whole lot more to construction type than what wiring method is used.

No one is saying the wiring method determines the construction type.


In my area NM has been used extensively in many applications other areas of the country do not.
 
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