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Thread: LED shop light install and results

  1. #1
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    May 2010
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    LED shop light install and results

    I installed 96--4 foot LED strip/shop lights, customer purchased from Sam's Club. I removed 66--8 foot 120 volt fluorescent light fixtures. I failed to take any light readings or amperage readings beforehand as I did not think the story would get so good. Almost exactly 1/2 way through the change-out a representative of the servicing power company came by the building, however I was not told as he simply told the owner he needed to check the meter. Upon completion the same power company rep came by this time asking the owner if he had done any remolding or other work, specifically electrical. The owner told the rep that yes , he had changed all the lighting to LED. Rep left after saying nothing and returned with his supervisor and now they were seemingly interrogating the owner, not about the lighting, but about what had the electrical contractor worked on specifically. Finally the supervisor said they were there only because there was a suspicious reduction in power usage in the previous 2 weeks and they had to investigate. -----Owner felt great and thought it funny. I did too except I found it absolutely unbelievable that a power company rep does not understand the facts concerning LED lighting. His electric bills went from a consistent $385 to $120 per month and the light level has doubled and of course most customers love the light color in the 4000K--5000K levels.

  2. #2
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    Shoulda just told them that I installed a device I found on the internet that claimed it was something power companies don't want you to know about.

    -Hal

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by hbiss View Post
    Shoulda just told them that I installed a device I found on the internet that claimed it was something power companies don't want you to know about.

    -Hal
    Yeah...call it a flux capacitor.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by retirede View Post
    Yeah...call it a flux capacitor.
    It corrects the power factor in the past and retroactively lowers your old power bills.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsmalone1 View Post
    Finally the supervisor said they were there only because there was a suspicious reduction in power usage in the previous 2 weeks and they had to investigate. -----Owner felt great and thought it funny. I did too except I found it absolutely unbelievable that a power company rep does not understand the facts concerning LED lighting. His electric bills went from a consistent $385 to $120 per month and the light level has doubled and of course most customers love the light color in the 4000K--5000K levels.
    Unsupportable claim of drastic and immediate outcome from a typical of lip moving LED sales affiliate who failed to take relevant measurements and swearing by a customer comment or own thoughts that the light level went up by double.

    Top it off with discovering reduction of monthly power bill from $385/mo power bill went to $120/mo after just two weeks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric-Light View Post
    Unsupportable claim of drastic and immediate outcome from a typical of lip moving LED sales affiliate who failed to take relevant measurements and swearing by a customer comment or own thoughts that the light level went up by double.

    Top it off with discovering reduction of monthly power bill from $385/mo power bill went to $120/mo after just two weeks.
    I saw no mention of an LED salesman form the OP.


    Lotta
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    If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Bill View Post
    I saw no mention of an LED salesman form the OP.


    Lotta
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    Displayed

    Nor did I.

    Roger
    Moderator

  8. #8
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    Jun 2010
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    I am just saying this doesn't really have any meaningful testament for LEDs. Some people have claimed I never acknowledge anything positive about LEDs. I have mentioned before I acknowledge that LEDs have their good side too and that is anywhere you desire nearly instant light output where their switch cycle per minute can be measured in minutes and annual burn hours that often don't make it into four figures a year.

    Fluorescent lamps that start almost instantly are damaged noticeably with each start which can only be mitigated with programmed start which not only adds cost but adds a one second lag to starting which is considered very undesirable in many short cycle applications. Poor wearing, cheap LEDs that can actually make 5,000 hrs in this kind of use will last many calendar years and they're poised to wipe out quad-tube CFL based cans as they're complex and costly to make as well having poor applied efficiency.

    For this example..
    I used the worst possible base load before alteration. 16.83kW at 66 x 2xF96T12/HO at 255W each
    After of 4.32kW at 66 x 45W for LEDs.

    Reduction of 12.51kW

    The thread starter's figures represent 68.9% savings on the power bill, but load was not reduced to zero. Using those wattage figures for a common LED type shop light sold at Sam's Club and two lamp 8ft T12 HO, I estimated Pbefore 16.83/Pfter 12.51 * reported savings of 68.9% = lighting share of original bill is 92.7% under the presumption of equal burning hours. This is just not reasonably plausible. Not even for a lighting facility that burns light bulb to run life tests.

    Projecting future savings by extrapolating over a kW change in a two week period is not a reasonable estimation. this is a good chance of something else changing and LEDs getting the credit for it. Perhaps a malfunctioning fresh door damper has been stuck wide open on AC unit and was operating in fresh-air cooling since Spring but became unjammed or caught and fixed by a filter maintenance vendor.

    Many vehicles in the last 5 years come equipped with expensive iridium spark plugs that last 4-6x the life of standard 30-36k mile plugs that cost fractions. HSS drill bits often cut as well or sometimes better than expensive titanium bits out of the box. These are low purchase price, low durability non-DLC qualified light duty products that are great for residential shop lite applications where they often get 500 hours or less a year and you can get away with using initial lumens but keep in mind low endurance LED lights can fade as much as 30% in 11,000 hours which is worse than CFLs and these fixtures have limited life in 4,000 hr+ year applications. If they start off at 4,000 lumens, you had better considered rating them at 3,200 (80%) or so as LED products have more lumen depreciation than all light sources except for standard metal halide lamps excluding very gently driven, generously cooled units that cost several times more than comparable quality traditional technology.

    LED elements are pushed hard to maximize lumen output per fixture cost and many of these fixtures are designed in China to utilize cheap ABS or PC plastic white parts that are prone to yellowing rather than materials and finish used for specifications grade light fixtures. To worsen this, many cheap products are made to minimize copper and aluminum contents. Many are not hermetically sealed and I've seen many instances of insects baking onto the translucent fluorescent rubber on the LED elements themselves and yellowing of white lacquer finish on the board that LED elements are mounted on.

  9. #9
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    This story is not a meaningful datapoint supporting LEDs versus other tech, but rather the experience of someone changing to new tech from old.

    It can both be true that the new LEDs are better than the old T12 system, and that a new fluorescent system would be better still.

    -Jon

  10. #10
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    Jun 2010
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    Unless I made mistakes in my math things just don't add up. I'm coming up with about 90% of their bill is from lighting strictly assuming energy charge. It depends on the utility but 15 or 30 min sampling is common so it wouldn't be hard to go through usage trend and figure out a trend in bins where the difference is consistent with the difference between previous and current lighting usage.

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