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Thread: 501.15

  1. #1
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    501.15

    I have a Fire Alarm pull station installed in CID2 area; its listed as Nema 4X, Explosionproof, rated CID1, B,C,D...BUT, the device does not state anything about "Factory Sealed", "Hermetically Sealed", "No Seal Required" etc.

    So does this device still require a conduit (or cable) seal within 18"?

  2. #2
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    It looks that way.
    The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkidd View Post
    It looks that way.
    I tend to agree. But if its Explosionproof construction doesn't that mean it has to have factory sealed contacts, therefore no seal required?

  4. #4
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    No. Just that the enclosure can contain and safely release hot gasses.
    The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkidd View Post
    No. Just that the enclosure can contain and release hot gasses.
    But remember, the enclosure is not Nema 4X/7 - its just 4X.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale001289 View Post
    I tend to agree. But if its Explosionproof construction doesn't that mean it has to have factory sealed contacts, therefore no seal required?
    hermetically sealed is not the same thing as XP, and unless the rules are different for fire pull boxes there is no code I am aware of that requires XP equipment use sealed contacts.

    Keep in mind that the "seals" we talk about that are put in conduits to restrict the movement of gases within the conduits are not a hermetic seal. A hermetic seal is completely unable to pass gases through it. it is a very difficult thing to do for something of any size, and nearly impossible to do in the field.
    Bob

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by petersonra View Post
    hermetically sealed is not the same thing as XP, and unless the rules are different for fire pull boxes there is no code I am aware of that requires XP equipment use sealed contacts.

    Keep in mind that the "seals" we talk about that are put in conduits to restrict the movement of gases within the conduits are not a hermetic seal. A hermetic seal is completely unable to pass gases through it. it is a very difficult thing to do for something of any size, and nearly impossible to do in the field.
    The enclosure is not XP or Nema 7; its nema 4X only.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale001289 View Post
    The enclosure is not XP or Nema 7; its nema 4X only.
    Then the information that says it is suitable for Class I, Division 1 is wrong. All enclosures in Class I, Division 1 must be "approved" for Class I, Division 1. It does not matter what type of contacts the pull station uses. That only makes a difference in Class I, Division 2 locations.
    Don, Illinois
    Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity. Dr. Rick Rigsby
    (All code citations are 2017 unless otherwise noted)

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    Then the information that says it is suitable for Class I, Division 1 is wrong. All enclosures in Class I, Division 1 must be "approved" for Class I, Division 1. It does not matter what type of contacts the pull station uses. That only makes a difference in Class I, Division 2 locations.

    I went out and personally looked at the device as installed in a CID2 area of the plant. Part of the device, the portion that houses the DPDT switch, appears to be Nema 7 construction. The front portion of the device (the part for "Pull Down") appears to be Nema 4X.

    The vendor documentation is, at best very vague. Nowhere does it state anything about Nema 7. I am going to treat this as a 'conduit seal required' scenario.

    Thanks to all!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale001289 View Post
    But remember, the enclosure is not Nema 4X/7 - its just 4X.
    OK, is the pull station mounted in a 4X enclosure or is the pull station itself listed as meeting NEMA 4X? Does it look like this?

    Name:  MPEX_C_HRc.jpg
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