How do you answer "just give me a price for labor, I'll buy all the materiel"?

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GerryB

Senior Member
How do you answer "just give me a price for labor, I'll buy all the materiel"?

This is a two family house with a new service, complete gut job. I am going to tell him I can't figure it like that, if he wants to get wire at a box store he can give the receipt and I'll credit it. Also I don't like the boxes they sell at Depot, the service materiel you pretty much have to get at a supply house (3 gang meter socket). If you give a labor price I guess they will be looking at how much time you spend there. Any other things I missed?
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
How can you warranty material that the customer supplies ? YOU CAN'T !!! You mention boxes & I will add staples to the list. Boxes Allied Moulding are my preferred choice. As for staples Theil brand. Which are two brands not likely stocked at Orange & Blue. Plus when the customer goes shopping, do they come back with the right item ? Probably not which leads to non productive time.

I save the big box stores for nights & weekends emergencies.
 

PetrosA

Senior Member
As long as he agrees to pay for your time to compile the material lists, agrees that whatever's left over he keeps, agrees that any returns are on him, agrees that he will be billed separate labor rates for any delays in delivery of materials while you or your guys are on site and waiting, agrees that any changes he makes to your material list may not be accepted by you or the inspector and agrees that there will be no warranty on parts aside from what the manufacturer offers, and that any warranty claims are his to deal with, you should be fine ;)
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
Tell him that on his way to get your materials he can stop at the grocery, pick up some steaks, & take them to "Outback" steak house and have them cook them for "labor only"!;)
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
As long as he agrees to pay for your time to compile the material lists, agrees that whatever's left over he keeps, agrees that any returns are on him, agrees that he will be billed separate labor rates for any delays in delivery of materials while you or your guys are on site and waiting, agrees that any changes he makes to your material list may not be accepted by you or the inspector and agrees that there will be no warranty on parts aside from what the manufacturer offers, and that any warranty claims are his to deal with, you should be fine ;)

Yep, that would about cover it, I think.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
This is a two family house with a new service, complete gut job. I am going to tell him I can't figure it like that, if he wants to get wire at a box store he can give the receipt and I'll credit it. Also I don't like the boxes they sell at Depot, the service materiel you pretty much have to get at a supply house (3 gang meter socket). If you give a labor price I guess they will be looking at how much time you spend there. Any other things I missed?

$85 an hour is the answer. that price starts when i get there and stops when i leave.

HOW MANY HOURS WILL IT TAKE, HE SCREAMS?

dunno. depends on how much you screw up the material take off, and how long
i have to stand there while you go run off to buy $12.45 worth of something that
you forgot.

WHAT DO I BUY, HE ASKS.....

you want to be the subcontractor, cupcake. make a list and call me when you want
me to come over and put it in after you buy it. and while you are at it, pick me up
a new 3/4" auger. i don't want to get mine dull driling your house.

YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO DO THIS, DO YOU?

no.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I would tell him the truth. The materials cover your overhead and if he buys them then you need to charge more per hour.

The first time this happened to me was 35+ years ago. The owner asked me to wire a 5,000 sq.ft house but he wanted to buy the materials. I knew he owned a restaurant so I asked him if he would cook me a steak at his restaurant if I brought in the steak. He said "What do you mean?" I said you know what I mean-- get someone else to do your house I am not interested.

Guaranteed you will waste a lot of time waiting for materials as they will never have everything you need.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I would tell him the truth. The materials cover your overhead and if he buys them then you need to charge more per hour.

The first time this happened to me was 35+ years ago. The owner asked me to wire a 5,000 sq.ft house but he wanted to buy the materials. I knew he owned a restaurant so I asked him if he would cook me a steak at his restaurant if I brought in the steak. He said "What do you mean?" I said you know what I mean-- get someone else to do your house I am not interested.

Guaranteed you will waste a lot of time waiting for materials as they will never have everything you need.

I had a similar situation and told him that would be like me bringing the hamburger for him to cook for my lunch. He understood entirely and that was the end of that discussion. He is still a customer 25 years later.

I had a GC that wanted to do that for the one or two homes he did a year. I told him go ahead, but he was responsible for all items to be on location when I needed them. All warranties, quantities, and defective materials were his problem. We would charge an hourly rate while waiting for him or go to the next project and work his in again when we could.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
I use "per opening" prices which include materials of my choice. Any time I'm asked to do labor only pricing, I figure per opening and then credit a percentage back for materials.

And the percentage back is less than what it would actually cost, because you're going to have to make the list, verify accuracy, etc.

For example, if my materials are 25% of total price. Credit back 15-18%

It should end up costing more this way, because you have more time spent making it happen. There's no reason for you to eat the extra time and hassle.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Having the right materials in the right place at the right time insures your labor and warranty obligations are under your control. If someone else controls that, the risk is too high for you to do the install & warranty.

Your supply house is not going to let him set up an account for this one job. Just tell him that's not the way the industry works.
 

jerryalan

Member
Location
Perry, Mi. Shiawassee
Occupation
electrician
fine with me, the client pays for the material anyways and since i don't mark that stuff up it is of no consequence.
i place his material order at the closest distributor and the client pays fob.
 
If you don't have any markup on material, What pays your overhead ? Just your hourly rate ?

Why cant overhead be built into an hourly rate? IMO hourly, profit, overhead, are just buzzwords that have no uniform meaning.

To each their own, but IMO not having to warranty and deal with material, pickup before or after work, cash flow, making calls, shopping around, etc - sounds fine to me (with a few stipulation as others mentioned).
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
Why cant overhead be built into an hourly rate? IMO hourly, profit, overhead, are just buzzwords that have no uniform meaning.

To each their own....

The numbers should all be meaningful, and each added dynamic needs to be plugged in specifically.

For just one guy working alone, it can muddle together and not be too problematic. But there needs to be a clear delineation between costs associated with working the job vs. materials logistics.


No matter who buys materials, you still have to have a vehicle, gas, insurance, tools, etc.

But materials need to be marked up to cover time for shopping, delivery, warranty, etc. This becomes clearer with T & M billing.

If i supply materials, i mark them up to double retail price. That pays time to shop, whether in person or on phone, delivery, etc. Then i assume the warranty. And if it fails, I eat all costs associated with replacement.

If the customer supplies materials, then something fails, who are they going to call? Who's going to pay you for time spent determining it's not your responsibility? Are you going to replace it for free labor?

All costs associated with materials must clearly connect to material markup
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Why cant overhead be built into an hourly rate? IMO hourly, profit, overhead, are just buzzwords that have no uniform meaning.

To each their own, but IMO not having to warranty and deal with material, pickup before or after work, cash flow, making calls, shopping around, etc - sounds fine to me (with a few stipulation as others mentioned).
It can, but that usually means labor will need to be higher then it would be if materials otherwise had a markup. Customers like this are looking for least cost possible, so when you turn around and give them a higher labor rate then you did before they think you want to rip them off. Sometimes it is just best to let them think that and not accept the job, because they intend to get by with as little as possible and you will have no cushion built in to cover the unexpected.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I don't like projects where the customer is supplying some or all of the material. they always forget stuff, or forget to order it, or order the wrong things, etc.

the amount of labor associated with material handing is going to be roughly the same regardless of who supplies it, so I don't understand the need to try and hide the labor expended in margin on material like so many do.

the thing is that most people have some kind of system in place to track material that goes to heck when someone else is buying it. that probably means there will be extra labor involved on the PM side to keep track of it that needs to be added in.

most people seem to include a flat amount of the material cost for warranty issues. if you are not supplying the material, no need to warrant it.
 

just the cowboy

Inactive, Email Never Verified
Location
newburgh,ny
I can get them cheaper

I can get them cheaper

Tell them they WILL not be happy if they go orange or blue because they sell !@#$.
Tell them it is electrical and it is VERY important that they use quality parts.
Tell them you can get them cheaper from your ELECTRICAL distributor.
Tell them it WILL be a better job
Tell them GOODBYE if they don't listen to the above.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
On an interesting side note (to me, anyway) is when I hired a GC to renovate my kitchen, he insisted that I supply any lighting fixtures. I can only think that he'd had too many instances where customers didn't like what the EC supplied. Come to think of it, I had to buy the dishwasher as well.
 

JeffBabineaux

Member
Location
Minden, LA
When a contractor asks the customer to supply the material, I usually assume that they don't want to tie up their own money in the job (read: can't). It's a red flag for me, at least.
 
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