manufactures spec

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romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
My understanding is manufacturers specs are considered in conjunction with , not superseding code

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use
of Equipment.


(A) Examination. Tn judging equipment, considerations
such as the following shall be evaluated:
(1) Suitability for installation and use in conformity with
the provisions of this Code

(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instruc-
tions included in the listing or labeling.

~RJ~
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
In general, manufacturer spec' cannot underscore Code, i.e. be less safe.
I agree but it can go beyond the code requirements and that IMO is unfortunate that we must follow it. The problem I have with that is that sometimes the requirements are asinine.
 

templdl

Senior Member
Location
Wisconsin
There must be a reason for asking the quest of which none was given. Is this a theoretical question or can the OP give an example of an existing product?
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
Perhaps as ex, 210.11 C 3 ex. , {which seems a common complaint}>


Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment 'within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A)( J) and (A)(2).


Customer wants a ex fan in bath/shower area , manufacturer's instructions say it can go there on gfci

If sparky ran solo circuits to the bathrooms, no blank face applies

If not sparky gets to explain the blank face , or the gfci breaker on the lighting circuit....

~RJ~
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Perhaps as ex, 210.11 C 3 ex. , {which seems a common complaint}>


Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single
bathroom, outlets for other equipment 'within the same
bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance
with 210.23(A)( J) and (A)(2).


Customer wants a ex fan in bath/shower area , manufacturer's instructions say it can go there on gfci

If sparky ran solo circuits to the bathrooms, no blank face applies

If not sparky gets to explain the blank face , or the gfci breaker on the lighting circuit....

~RJ~

I'd call that mfgr specs exceeding code more so then overriding code. There is no code violation by putting the GFCI here other then a violation of listing instructions. Now if you had a piece of equipment that the instructions prohibited GFCI protection yet that piece of equipment were located in a place that code states must be GFCI protected .... you have a problem.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
I agree but it can go beyond the code requirements and that IMO is unfortunate that we must follow it. The problem I have with that is that sometimes the requirements are asinine.


Sure are! I have installed several hot tubs and all of them tell you the required minimum size conductors to run. But some of them say "conductors need to be #6 copper including the EGC."
When all the code requires is a #10 EGC on a 50 or 60A circuit. I see no need in using #6 EGC for that. (and I don't)
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Sure are! I have installed several hot tubs and all of them tell you the required minimum size conductors to run. But some of them say "conductors need to be #6 copper including the EGC."
When all the code requires is a #10 EGC on a 50 or 60A circuit. I see no need in using #6 EGC for that. (and I don't)

On top of that the terminals they provide for you to land those 6AWG on just barely accept 6 AWG and they leave you with wire bending space that is barely suitable for 10AWG:roll:
 

Carultch

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
On top of that the terminals they provide for you to land those 6AWG on just barely accept 6 AWG and they leave you with wire bending space that is barely suitable for 10AWG:roll:

So what do they expect you to do? Bend the #10 wire in to position until the last inch of space available, and then butt-splice it to size #6?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
So what do they expect you to do? Bend the #10 wire in to position until the last inch of space available, and then butt-splice it to size #6?
I never had an issue with terminating the #6 however I have seen some instructions which req. the number 6 to be brought back to the main service panel.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I never had an issue with terminating the #6 however I have seen some instructions which req. the number 6 to be brought back to the main service panel.
I haven't either but have run into other equipment needing same size conductors that do give you more space to work with. Often times they give you so little space you think that natural deflection of the conductors that is necessary will provide enough strain on the terminal that it will fail at some point. And there often is enough space in the assembly that they easily could have added another inch or two to the dimensions of the control box, but that extra amount of material to do so would drive the cost of the unit up too much I guess:roll:
 
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