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Thread: Definition of Feeder

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by al hildenbrand View Post
    Your proposed wording says "Where these conductors" and that refers to the original opening words "All circuit conductors" which, when there is a subpanel, includes the Service Equipment to subpanel feeder.
    Yes but it doesn't effect those conductors because they are not feeding an individual piece of equipment-- maybe I should say utilization equipment

    You are not directly addressing the individual utilization equipment with a local disconnect that has OCPD included. Your words in the proposed change don't directly say the final OCPD is not the OCPD in the local disconnect. And, more importantly, if the ignored actual final local disconnect OCPD is coming from a OCPD NOT in the Service Equipment, that this subpanel located OCPD is to be the "final OCPD" at the beginning of the Branch Circuit.[/QUOTE]
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  2. #12
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    I agree that the definition needs to be cleared up a bit.

    For example, I have a cable from my breaker panel to a fused SSU that supplies power to my furnace. There is a cable going from the SSU to the furnace.

    Is the cable running from the breaker panel to the SSU a feeder or a branch circuit conductor? What if I change from a fused SSU to a non-fused switch located at the same place?
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Here is a proposal I am thinking of making



    Here is my substantiation. I am not a good writer and would love some input on my proposal and maybe some help in re-wording my substantiation.
    I've tossed the idea around in my mind for a little bit and keep arriving at the same conclusion...


    Perhaps the change should be based on whether the 'feeder' conductors can support a greater load than the single piece of utilization equipment they supply, i.e. 'feeder', versus barely enough to support the connected single load, i.e. 'branch'.

    Better hurry if you want to get this refined to an accept in principle level.
    I will have achieved my life's goal if I die with a smile on my face.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    Yes but the proposal has an exception when there is an overcurrent protective device in between the load center and a piece of equipment only then I want that normally called feeder to be called a branch circuit. Thus the entire run between a panel and a single piece of equipment is a branch circuit whether there is a disconnect with overcurrent protective device in it or not
    Actually, no, there is no exception as written. Your proposed language is added as part of the actual Definition of the Term "Feeder".

    And you never mention "load center" in your language.

    More importantly, if there are TWO or MORE OCPDs between the Service Center OCPD and the individual utilization equipment, how do you determine which is the beginning of the Branch Circuit as you are "excepting?"
    Another Al in Minnesota

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    I agree that the definition needs to be cleared up a bit.

    For example, I have a cable from my breaker panel to a fused SSU that supplies power to my furnace. There is a cable going from the SSU to the furnace.

    Is the cable running from the breaker panel to the SSU a feeder or a branch circuit conductor? What if I change from a fused SSU to a non-fused switch located at the same place?
    Great examples.

    By the 2017 NEC Definitions in Article 100, the fused switch (SSU) is on the end of a Feeder. A non-fused SSU is IN the Branch Circuit.

    Marky, for the purposes of running the cable or raceway method to your furnace, does calling the wiring method a Feeder change anything?
    Another Al in Minnesota

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by al hildenbrand View Post
    Great examples.

    By the 2017 NEC Definitions in Article 100, the fused switch (SSU) is on the end of a Feeder. A non-fused SSU is IN the Branch Circuit.

    Marky, for the purposes of running the cable or raceway method to your furnace, does calling the wiring method a Feeder change anything?
    That is the exact example I made in my statement of substantiation
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by al hildenbrand View Post
    Great examples.

    By the 2017 NEC Definitions in Article 100, the fused switch (SSU) is on the end of a Feeder. A non-fused SSU is IN the Branch Circuit.

    Marky, for the purposes of running the cable or raceway method to your furnace, does calling the wiring method a Feeder change anything?
    In some cases in can change the size of the now feeder conductor. The feeder would be larger than the branch circuit. We had a thread on it a while ago
    They say I shot a man named Gray and took his wife to Italy
    She inherited a million bucks and when she died it came to me
    I can't help it if I'm lucky



  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon View Post
    In some cases in can change the size of the now feeder conductor. The feeder would be larger than the branch circuit. We had a thread on it a while ago
    My question to Marky is specifically about his furnace . . . I am assuming he is describing a 15 Amp 120 Volt supply to a normal residential forced air furnace. . . maybe it is a hydronic boiler or a steam boiler, same 15 Amp 120 Volt supply. How does calling the wiring to the fused disconnect on the side of the furnace a feeder change anything?

    And about that thread. . . do you recall the link?
    Another Al in Minnesota

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by al hildenbrand View Post
    My question to Marky is specifically about his furnace . . . I am assuming he is describing a 15 Amp 120 Volt supply to a normal residential forced air furnace. . .
    Yes, that is correct.

    I also have a fused SSU that supplies power to the receptacles on my work bench. Just for definition's sake, is the cable that goes from the panel to the work bench SSU a feeder, or is it a branch circuit conductor, or maybe even both?
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    I also have a fused SSU that supplies power to the receptacles on my work bench. Just for definition's sake, is the cable that goes from the panel to the work bench SSU a feeder, or is it a branch circuit conductor, or maybe even both?
    The conductors coming to the work bench SSU, when fused, are Feeder conductors. The conductors between the fuse LOAD side terminal and the Outlet are the Branch Circuit. The SSU is the "final OCPD."
    Another Al in Minnesota

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