End of nighmare

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Esthy

Senior Member
Good Morning Mentors; after my Mobile Homes nightmare?s week and following all your advices I decided to write my boss about my conclusion and recommendation. I have to do that in plain English (maybe from me in Spanglish LOL) because I am dealing with 7 handyman doing whatever they think is right. Please I appreciate your inputs and/or corrections as I planning to present it tomorrow using simple and kindergarten words. All those MH are permanent and many of the meter/pedestals were converted to junction boxes without the proper wiring and farther that 30? and other violations.

1) For all our Mobile Homes, regardless the age a disconnecting means with overcurrent protection MUST be provided on the outside and within 30 feet of the home. It can be the meter/breaker or pedestal/box with a breaker. It cannot be attached directly to the home and be not less than two (2) feet above finish grade.

2) The disconnect MUST contain a four-wire insulated conductors, including the EGC with green insulation, and the neutral (white) and grounding (green) MUST be bonded there and from there - not from the inside service panel - a #4 AWG Bare Solid Copper Grounding Wire (I prefer this AWG) to 2 grounding rods no less than 6? apart.

3) The four conductor, including the EGC insulated green ? not bare, from the outside disconnecting mean should be route to the inside service panel that will contains a main breaker. No other feeders, ONLY one (1)

4) In this service panel the neutral (white) and the grounding (green) MUST be separated AND a BONDING insulated* conductor MUST be installed from the service panel to the metal frame and in the case of a double-wide home, both sections must be bonded. (I don?t know if SER cable for the service can be use**)

5) I strongly recommend replacing Federal Pacific, Zinsco and Pushmatic (Bulldog) or any panel that shows distress and when doing so, Arc Fault Circuit Interrupter (AFCI) must be installing in all inside 15 & 20 amps circuits and GFICs where necessary.

6) Because mostly of the MHs we deal with are old models, we should consider testing and replacing all switches, receptacles and fixtures that are obsolete/damaged/week.

7) BEFORE any plumbing work, the worker MUST consult with an electrician, because serious or fatal electric shocks can result when removing water meters, or cutting through or disconnecting metallic water pipes on water services. There are numerous deaths by electrocution. Will explain in a separated issue.

8) AND all the work MUST be permitted and inspected by the AHJ in the area.

*Can used bare here?
**Can use SER?
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
You can't use SER cable to feed the mobile home. The EGC in SER is bare. The code requires the conductors to be "color coded" & insulated".

They make what we call here "mobile home wire". It is a 4-conductor twisted together. It has the color coding and is insulated. It is listed as XLPE, USE-2, or RHH, or RHW-2.
It comes in 4/0-4/0/2/0-4 for 200A
or 2-2-4-6 for 100A

It is not expensive either, especially for short runs from the outside disconnect to the inside panel.
 
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romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
7) BEFORE any plumbing work, the worker MUST consult with an electrician, because serious or fatal electric shocks can result when removing water meters, or cutting through or disconnecting metallic water pipes on water services. There are numerous deaths by electrocution. Will explain in a separated issue.

You lost me there.......~RJ~
 

Esthy

Senior Member
I would like to follow the guidelines below for those MHs as I am working with a lot of handymen, usually I don't do that for "normal" repairs

ELECTRICAL HAZARDS FROM METALLIC WATER SERVICES

This safety alert replaces a previous safety alert issued in 2005 and has been revised following the recent death of a plumber who was electrocuted while installing a new section of copper water pipe at a private residence. This is the second fatality of its type that has occurred in NSW since 2005.

This alert warns plumbers that serious or fatal electric shocks can result when removing water meters, or cutting through or disconnecting metallic water pipes on water services.

The main contributing factor in these types of incidents is a fault has occurred with the electricity supply on the premises, or in the street, that causes the metallic piping to become ?live?. When the pipe is cut or disconnected, either side of the pipe could become ?live?, causing the worker to receive a serious or fatal electric shock.

OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY REQUIREMENTS

The Occupational Health and Safety Regulation 2001 require employers and self-employed people to identify hazards and assess and control risks at the workplace, in consultation with their workers.

RISK CONTROLS

Prior to the removal of water meters, or the repair or replacement of metallic water piping, the following control measures should be implemented:

? Before commencing work, ask the customer about the operational condition of the electrical installation. If they have experienced a ?tingling? sensation after touching the water pipes, taps or appliances, do not work on the water service. Advise the customer and the local electricity distributor that an electrical fault is suspected.

? If practicable, find the main switch for the premises and turn off the power. Attach a danger tag, or lock the switchboard, to ensure the power remains off until the work is completed.

? Use low voltage, insulated gloves when working on the water service.

? Thoroughly clean the section of pipe each side of the length to be cut or disconnected ? or either side of the water meter if the meter is to be removed.

? Attach a bridging conductor with a current rating of 70 amperes or greater, and span the work area where the metal pipe is to be cut or the meter disconnected ? and leave the area undisturbed until the work is finished. Ensure the clamps make good physical contact with the cleansed parts of the metal pipe.

? The bridging conductor must not be broken or removed until all work on the water service is completed and continuity of the metallic pipe is restored.

? Where metallic pipe is to be replaced by plastic pipe or other fittings, work must not commence until the earthing requirements have been checked by an electrical contractor, and modified if necessary.

? Plumbers must not disconnect earth wires that may be attached to the metal water pipes. If an earth wire needs to be disconnected, or is damaged, the customer should be told to get an electrical contractor to carry out the work.
 

DWEames

Member
Location
New Orleans, LA
good move on proposing the replacement of the panel. the current one is more trouble than it's worth. you can get a better panel with an OCPD. i would get a siemens or sq. d load center with bolt-on main. and install grounding bus if necessary. not sure what size the feeder is coming into the panel. it's probably too small. if you're really going to separate the neutrals and grounds, you should probably check every outlet and junction on the entire mobile to insure neutrals were not tapped to ground. it will also help you fulfill the ARC fault Circuit Breaker idea. unless you can vouch for that whole place, you're not going to be able to complete your list.
 

cpinetree

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Be aware the outside disconnecting means also needs provisions for additional breaker spaces, or a sub panel off the mobile home panel.

2011 NEC 550.32(D)
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Didn't know, but I cannot use those spare breakers to "feed" additional loads inside the MH as only one feeder is allows ... Is that correct?
 

cpinetree

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Didn't know, but I cannot use those spare breakers to "feed" additional loads inside the MH as only one feeder is allows ... Is that correct?

I think at that point (fed from an individual breaker to a load) it would be branch circuit not a feeder.

Feeder Defination - All circuit conductors between the service equipment, the source of a separately derived system, or other power supply source and the final branch-circuit overcurrent device.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Didn't know, but I cannot use those spare breakers to "feed" additional loads inside the MH as only one feeder is allows ... Is that correct?


Yes, you cannot run from the service panel to the inside of the house but you can hook up an exterior heat pump, a/c unit or well.
 

mike1061

Senior Member
Location
Chicago
I think your letter is very good. I would add that you might want to get a list of the code sections involved, because the workers or the owners will question you. When they do, give them the code section.

I would also like to ask, do "all" branch circuits need to be AFCI's? Even A/C's, how about window A/c's, or furnace circuits? I didn't know the living room needed to be AFCI, but that makes more sence than everything.
Thanks
Mike
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I think your letter is very good. I would add that you might want to get a list of the code sections involved, because the workers or the owners will question you. When they do, give them the code section.

I would also like to ask, do "all" branch circuits need to be AFCI's? Even A/C's, how about window A/c's, or furnace circuits? I didn't know the living room needed to be AFCI, but that makes more sence than everything.
Thanks
Mike
Outside of local amendments, when you change out a panel you generally do not have to add AFCI protection if you did not extend any existing circuits - and they did add wording (2014 I think) to indicate an extension of 6 feet or less is still acceptable - this allows junction boxes near the new panel for old wiring that doesn't reach the proper place in new equipment.

Otherwise AFCI is required for almost all 15 or 20 amp 125 volt circuits in a dwelling in 2011 and 2014 added a couple more places yet and there is not much left that is not required to have AFCI, unless it is over 20 amps or over 125 volts.
 
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