Grouping of Disconnects on Back of Multi-Tenant Retail Building NEC 230.72

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Arple

Member
Location
Indiana
Have been struggling for the past couple of weeks regarding the above topic, and have perused many websites, and even have found several articles and websites that seem to support an installation like this - where the disconnects are located in the panels inside of each the tenant's space and not immediately below the Meters outside or (grouped, per se).
photo_040615.jpg
(Please note that the photo installation is only an example of what is intended to be done...if there are any other violations, it is an existing retail center across the street from our project....not of issue, per se - because it's not actually our project...)

Just Happened upon an article written by Mike Holt that appeared to discuss this topic, as well...but still doesn't quite match this situation.

Would love to have Mike's (and/or team/forum members' interpretation of this topic) our building owner is getting terribly antsy, and the local inspector seems to feel that this installation should be ok, but then seems to become less comfortable, and has now asked us to get approval from the Fire Marshal prior to proceeding with an installation similar to above.


In past instances, I had gathered details from the NEC Handbook to try to help make this case, but it does not seem to be working in this situation - probably because what seems "clear" to me in one instance becomes unclear the next time I try to respond to an inspector or reviewer's request...

Would love to have input at your earliest convenience!
Thank you so much!
 

retire09

Senior Member
With a service main in the cabinet on the left; there is no need to group or limit the number of disconnects on the load side of that main.
My question is: what kind of tap rule is being applied between the connections in the gutter and the overcurrent devices in the tenant panels?
 

Arple

Member
Location
Indiana
Bus Cabinet

Bus Cabinet

I apologize, I am not familiar with how the Tap Rule applies to this (I probably know just enough to be a bit dangerous, sometimes).

Each meter base is fed independently from that box which is a Bus Cabinet.

There are individual Main Breakers in each of the Panels inside each of the tenant space (each panel is immediately inside of the space where the LB turns into the panel through the back wall).
 

retire09

Senior Member
If the 230.40 exception is used; these are not feeders or feeder taps, but service conductors.
Would they be required to terminate in service rated tenant panels?
Would each tenant panel have to provide its own service bond jumper?
 
If the 230.40 exception is used; these are not feeders or feeder taps, but service conductors.
Would they be required to terminate in service rated tenant panels?
Would each tenant panel have to provide its own service bond jumper?

Yes and yes. It would be exactly like any other multiple disconnect enclosure service just without the grouping. Probably would be advantageous to land the GEC before the service entrance conductors sets split or separate
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
IMO, the most important issue would be how the conduits terminate on the other end.
If these are service conductors (no overcurrent protection ahead of them period) then 230.70 would require the disconnect to be "nearest the point of entry". If the conduits remain under the slab until they immediately turn up in a overcurrent device you might be o.k.
If there is overcurrent protection ahead of these meters then then the tap rules would apply and your only salvation would be your meeting the outside tap rule which would again require the conductors to terminate immediately after leaving the slab.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Have been struggling for the past couple of weeks regarding the above topic, and have perused many websites, and even have found several articles and websites that seem to support an installation like this - where the disconnects are located in the panels inside of each the tenant's space and not immediately below the Meters outside or (grouped, per se).
View attachment 12329


never seen it done this way. We generally place a main at each meter.
 

Nom Deplume

Senior Member
Location
USA
Have been struggling for the past couple of weeks regarding the above topic, and have perused many websites, and even have found several articles and websites that seem to support an installation like this - where the disconnects are located in the panels inside of each the tenant's space and not immediately below the Meters outside or (grouped, per se).
View attachment 12329
(Please note that the photo installation is only an example of what is intended to be done...if there are any other violations, it is an existing retail center across the street from our project....not of issue, per se - because it's not actually our project...)

Just Happened upon an article written by Mike Holt that appeared to discuss this topic, as well...but still doesn't quite match this situation.

Would love to have Mike's (and/or team/forum members' interpretation of this topic) our building owner is getting terribly antsy, and the local inspector seems to feel that this installation should be ok, but then seems to become less comfortable, and has now asked us to get approval from the Fire Marshal prior to proceeding with an installation similar to above.


In past instances, I had gathered details from the NEC Handbook to try to help make this case, but it does not seem to be working in this situation - probably because what seems "clear" to me in one instance becomes unclear the next time I try to respond to an inspector or reviewer's request...

Would love to have input at your earliest convenience!
Thank you so much!

I would be more concerned with the violation on 300.50(C) and the conduit support violations.
 

retire09

Senior Member
I would like to inspect this service. I've never seen a service done like this.
I see plumbing fittings on the conduits.
I hope they have an engineers seal on the plans and the installation matches that plan.
 
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