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Thread: 2 wire system

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Delle View Post
    AFAIK, AFCI is not retroactive unless a new circuit is pulled from the panel. So why not just install replacement 2 wire receptacles and be done with it? I would also think replacing a 2w with a 3w GFCI would also avoid the AFCI requirement.
    On the contrary, in recent Code cycles AFCI is required if a circuit is extended to a new device or the wiring of an existing segment is extended more than 6'.
    This can include just replacing a receptacle with a new one.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldDigger View Post
    On the contrary, in recent Code cycles AFCI is required if a circuit is extended to a new device or the wiring of an existing segment is extended more than 6'.
    This can include just replacing a receptacle with a new one.
    where does it say "just replacing a receptacle with a new one" come from?

    Here's a situltion that I'm staring at right now, I want to quote replacement of some 1950's two wire receptacles for a customer with grounding type receptacles on a 2wire circuit that also happens to be part of a MWBC. So I go look for 2pole dual function breakers to solve the dilema, They don't exist. so hows this supposed to work needing afci and gfci protection where it is impractical to place afci receptacles behind furniture and using a 2pole gfci.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    where does it say "just replacing a receptacle with a new one" come from?
    Agreed. I don't see that.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    where does it say "just replacing a receptacle with a new one" come from?.
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Agreed. I don't see that.
    GoldDigger speaks the truth-

    From the 2014 and 2017

    406.4(D)(4)

    Where a receptacle outlet is lkocated in any areas specified in 210.12(A) or (B), a replacement recptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:

    (1) A listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter receptacle.

    (2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch circuit type arc-fault circuit interrupter type receptacle.

    (3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arc-fault circuit interrupter type circuit breaker.

  5. #15
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    Ah, thank you.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    where does it say "just replacing a receptacle with a new one" come from?
    The AFCI requirement comes from 2014 NEC, and later, 406.4(D) Replacements. All of 406.4(D) that applies to your specific situation. AFCI is in 406.4(D)(4). Minnesota has been requiring it since the 2014 NEC went into affect over three years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    Here's a situltion that I'm staring at right now, I want to quote replacement of some 1950's two wire receptacles for a customer with grounding type receptacles on a 2wire circuit that also happens to be part of a MWBC. So I go look for 2pole dual function breakers to solve the dilema, They don't exist. so hows this supposed to work needing afci and gfci protection where it is impractical to place afci receptacles behind furniture and using a 2pole gfci.
    The work-around is to use dual function AFCI / GFCI receptacles. Identify the 120 volt two wire branch circuit split point from the MWBC and use the dual function AFCI / GFCI receptacles as upstream in the two wire segments as possible. Depending upon the original electrician's circuit routing, it may be necessary to use more than one dual function AFCI / GFCI receptacle to pick up orphans.
    Another Al in Minnesota

  7. #17
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    So I'm not sitting on the code book now but Aren't those AFCI/GFCI receptacles supposed to be readily accessible also? How do you comply with that when there's furniture setting in front of them?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    So I'm not sitting on the code book now but Aren't those AFCI/GFCI receptacles supposed to be readily accessible also? How do you comply with that when there's furniture setting in front of them?
    As long as it is moveable (without bringing in a couple of hefty movers!) there is general acceptance that furniture in front of the receptacle does not prevent it from being readily accessible. (Readily accessible is in some ways less restrictive than accessible, surprisingly enough.)

  9. #19
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    Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    where does it say "just replacing a receptacle with a new one" come from?

    Here's a situltion that I'm staring at right now, I want to quote replacement of some 1950's two wire receptacles for a customer with grounding type receptacles on a 2wire circuit that also happens to be part of a MWBC. So I go look for 2pole dual function breakers to solve the dilema, They don't exist. so hows this supposed to work needing afci and gfci protection where it is impractical to place afci receptacles behind furniture and using a 2pole gfci.
    In the immortal words of John McClane, after hurling a body on a chair from Nakatomi Tower, “Welcome to the party, pal!”

    It’s the dumbest code change in an illustrious list of dumb code changes.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopowr steve View Post
    So I'm not sitting on the code book now but Aren't those AFCI/GFCI receptacles supposed to be readily accessible also? How do you comply with that when there's furniture setting in front of them?
    Or any of the number of amazing panel locations that have sprouted over the last 100 years, obsolete panels, boxes barely deep enough for a duplex holding its breath...

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