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Thread: Knob and tubing

  1. #1
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    Knob and tubing

    What is the code on removing exposed knob and tubing in the basement and attic? What about inside the wall? Do I have to fish all new nm inside the walls or I can leave nm where it's not exposed?
    Thanks for any information!

  2. #2
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    As far as I know you don't need to remove the old wiring.
    Edward
    The only thing I know, is the progressive discovery of my ignorance


  3. #3
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    I think this is more in line with insurance companies, and maybe lenders, not wanting K&T.
    Tom
    TBLO

  4. #4
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    The NEC does not mandate updating anything.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsilva View Post
    What is the code on removing exposed knob and tubing in the basement and attic? What about inside the wall? Do I have to fish all new nm inside the walls or I can leave nm where it's not exposed?
    Thanks for any information!
    There is no "removal" requirement written in the National Electric Code. However, if in the course of work on, or care of, an existing dwelling with K&T installed, if one insulates or reinsulates in the area of the existing K&T one cannot put insulation in contact with the K&T. Replacing the existing K&T with a modern wiring method is almost always the easiest way to get a good insulation installation.

    I work in an area that has a history of local ordinance that requires existing electrical installations to be "maintained" by certain improvements that would be enforced, most commonly, when a service size change occurred and the local jurisdiction had the leverage of denying the permanent electrical connection from the local Power Company.

    Some insurance companies claim that K&T must be removed from service if they are to issue an insurance policy on the property. They do not have the force of "Code" but do play on a customer's loyalty to an insurance company, and play on fear of electricity.

    So, the answer to your question is not simple and requires knowing local ordinances, if any, and requires an understanding of your customer's insurance.
    Another Al in Minnesota

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by al hildenbrand View Post
    There is no "removal" requirement written in the National Electric Code. However, if in the course of work on, or care of, an existing dwelling with K&T installed, if one insulates or reinsulates in the area of the existing K&T one cannot put insulation in contact with the K&T. Replacing the existing K&T with a modern wiring method is almost always the easiest way to get a good insulation installation.

    I work in an area that has a history of local ordinance that requires existing electrical installations to be "maintained" by certain improvements that would be enforced, most commonly, when a service size change occurred and the local jurisdiction had the leverage of denying the permanent electrical connection from the local Power Company.

    Some insurance companies claim that K&T must be removed from service if they are to issue an insurance policy on the property. They do not have the force of "Code" but do play on a customer's loyalty to an insurance company, and play on fear of electricity.

    So, the answer to your question is not simple and requires knowing local ordinances, if any, and requires an understanding of your customer's insurance.
    According to the definition in Art. 100, for the purposes of insurance, a representative from the insurance company may be the AHJ.
    Cheers and Stay Safe,

    Marky the Sparky

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    According to the definition in Art. 100, for the purposes of insurance, a representative from the insurance company may be the AHJ.
    Well, yeah. Curiously, the Property Owner is also the Authority Having Jurisdiction "in many circumstances", as written in the Article 100 Definition of Authority Having Jurisdiction informational note (a note which is not part of the "enforceable" Code).

    The thing about insurance agents making "requirements" is that I, as the Insured, can generally change the stated requirement simply by picking up the phone and calling a DIFFERENT insurance company.
    Another Al in Minnesota

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by K8MHZ View Post
    ... a representative from the insurance company may be the AHJ.
    But fortunately only by revocable contract, not by law.

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