Bad 1200 amp main OCPD options

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A client has an older square D switchboard, 120/208 1200 amps and during a shutdown for a generator test recently we discovered that the B phase was not opening. I tried several times and each time the A and C phase opened but not B. The breaker is a PAL361200 and is obsolete. I have a gear guy at the supply house looking into it. I just want to be sure I have investigated all options for the client since I know they will ask me about it so I was curious about getting a used/refurbished unit or having it repaired. Does anyone have any experience with any of these options? On the interwebs I see various sites selling used and "refurbished" circuit breakers but I am a little skeptical about getting a quality functioning unit. I dont know much about the repair option either. Obviously they would not have a main while it was being serviced so I would need to bypass it temporarily. If these have a history of being junk than maybe putting the same thing back in is not worth it. Thanks.
 

sparkyrick

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Appleton, Wi

meternerd

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Athol, ID
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retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
Have you tried taking it apart to see what's stuck? Just dig out the tar covering the screws and the cover comes right off. It might be better than leaving it bypassed waiting for a replacement. Probably not repairable, but why not try? I've disassembled a bunch of 'em, retested 'em and put 'em back in service. We have a high current breaker tester, (most folks don't). But those were breakers for our own pump stations, so as a contractor, liability would be an issue. Just a thought. Don't scream at me...I'm delicate!
 

jim dungar

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Plus all the labels look like they were wet, multiple times. They just don't wash away like that :)

That breaker label looks weird, partly because it is more than 30 years old. Square D changed its labeling in 1985, prior to that breaker catalog numbers were on the sides of breakers.


Almost all 'used' breakers, of this size, are available for sale because they are old and the rest of the equipment they were in has been scrapped out. The original breaker failed primarily due to age and poor maintenance, I wonder why the OP thinks another old breaker will be any better.
 

GoldDigger

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Square D is so far off the mark on some of their prices, it's not even funny. I've ran into the same thing when I've called on replacement breakers also.
It is not necessarily off their mark if they do not want the repair or replacement work based on their corporate business model .
 

big john

Senior Member
Location
Portland, ME
Square D is so far off the mark on some of their prices, it's not even funny. I've ran into the same thing when I've called on replacement breakers also.
The thing to remember about that price is you're getting a new obsolete breaker.

Yeah, you can get them a heck of a lot cheaper on the used market, but you have absolutely no idea what kind of conditions those breakers saw before you bought it. There's literally nothing saying they won't fail catastrophically the day after you purchase it, even if you get it tested and "reconditioned."

Besides which, reconditioning on MCCBs is often a load of garbage: They might polish up the case a little, but unless they're doing a complete disassembly and following something like a PEARL standard, very likely there's nothing significant done to put new life into that breaker.

OP, if you've got a single pole sticking then there's very likely a welded contact and it's not something you could repair even if you wanted to. The breaker needs to be replaced.
 
Have you tried taking it apart to see what's stuck? Just dig out the tar covering the screws and the cover comes right off. It might be better than leaving it bypassed waiting for a replacement. Probably not repairable, but why not try? I've disassembled a bunch of 'em, retested 'em and put 'em back in service. We have a high current breaker tester, (most folks don't). But those were breakers for our own pump stations, so as a contractor, liability would be an issue. Just a thought. Don't scream at me...I'm delicate!

I thought about that but I see it as a big risk if the thing fails completely or I cant get it back together.

Almost all 'used' breakers, of this size, are available for sale because they are old and the rest of the equipment they were in has been scrapped out. The original breaker failed primarily due to age and poor maintenance, I wonder why the OP thinks another old breaker will be any better.

I agree and that is why i did express concern/reluctance to get a used breaker. One of the main purposes of this thread was to see if anyone had any direct experience with these "tested" or "reconditioned" breakers and if they are actually reconditioned or just wiped down with a damp rag.

Square D is so far off the mark on some of their prices, it's not even funny. I've ran into the same thing when I've called on replacement breakers also.

Yeah I am not too happy and will take this into account on future gear purchases. IT seems like they are making a lot of it too. That price is actually for square D engineering to come take measurements then come back and isntall the breaker. I am not sure what all the concern about sizing and bolt patterns are, its not a one of a kind breaker.

I can replace the gear for less than the price of that breaker.
 

jim dungar

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Wisconsin
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That price is actually for square D engineering to come take measurements then come back and isntall the breaker. I am not sure what all the concern about sizing and bolt patterns are, its not a one of a kind breaker.

I can replace the gear for less than the price of that breaker.

If they are coming out to make measurements, you are likely getting a brand new type N or R frame breaker not an 'obsolete replacement'. This retrofit means you get new equipment warranty without having to disconnect and replace all of your branch breakers and wiring connections like you would with replacement gear.

You might want to review what is actually in their quote.
 
If they are coming out to make measurements, you are likely getting a brand new type N or R frame breaker not an 'obsolete replacement'. This retrofit means you get new equipment warranty without having to disconnect and replace all of your branch breakers and wiring connections like you would with replacement gear.

You might want to review what is actually in their quote.

Yes they would be putting in a powerpact R frame breaker. I just thought they would have the adapting bus bars already figured out But perhaps not.
 

jim dungar

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Wisconsin
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Yes they would be putting in a powerpact R frame breaker. I just thought they would have the adapting bus bars already figured out But perhaps not.
Dimensional drawings of internal bus work is not part of the official record for that product line.
There is a lot more customized bussing required in the 'main device' section of that gear than people think. In the old days, all of the interior bussing was left entirely up to the fabricator.
 
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