Whoa!

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Esthy

Senior Member
An aluminum wiring mobile home went on fire. I took permits for repairs, one for FAS Alteration and one for feeder and the rods. My plan was: first installing the rods and call for inspection for those and the feeder, that according to me it is acceptable for this service. The existing rod (only one) is attached to the bottom of the pedestal (see photos) but when I opened this area, that it was without the POCO seal, I notice the condition of those (photos 2 & 3) and I stopped and called POCO for them "to redo that area" and to ask authorization to install the new 2 rods at the disconnect area (photo 1) ... I still waiting. Was I out the line for this asking? Somebody said that! Whoa, so many mobile homes in distress in this area. This mobile home, I think I posted before this particular MH, was updated with a new panel and mixing aluminum and copper wires with regular twist connectors. Next post is part of the inside wiring/panel. This job was done without permits.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Good Luck !
Around here that would be customer owned equipment and POCO would have little to do with it other than disconnecting the conductors at the service point if you need them to.
Finding someone willing to pay you to repair/replace the equipment would be the next hurdle.
Your best hope will be the inspector providing documentation requiring repairs, replacement , proper grounding.
Often those situation are addressed locally using the FIDO approach. (******, drive off)
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
#2 & #3 indicate to me that the pedestal is the POCOs area and ours would look and fix, if they thought it was needed. More than 1 rod would be our problem if we wanted to change it. Not sure how our inspectors would handle that. Utility only installs one rod. As far as the rod sticking above the ground, are you sure it isn't a 10' rod? Spiders, webs, etc is just life. Nothing we can do about it,

FIDO is a first for me. Took awhile.:lol:
 

Esthy

Senior Member
This is interesting. I am finding now that apparently no one want to deal with Mobile Homes. The locator company walked away from marking and told us to find a private paid company to do so. Labor & Industries has a separated entity to deal with those MHs as regular inspectors are banned from MHs. Attorneys don't want to be involved in litigations about those either and the comment from augie47 put me to think ... Should I walk away from this nightmare as well? Thanks augie47 and BTW what are the meaning of I in FIDO? I am not a native and most of the time I don't understand some American expressions. I think F stand for F@#$ --- I ?? --- and drive off.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
According with one of the inspectors they are 8', but I really think they are 10'. How can I be sure about this? I was planning to install two 8's and pull the old one to verify, but maybe POCO can corroborate the information if they are able to.
 
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
I= It

The Service Equipment and feeder to the MH are inspected here, anything inside is kinda sorta the FIDO. I have never had an inspector tell me I had to get some other agency to inspect a replacement panel I put in a MH. I don't know who it would be in the State. I haven't worried about it either. We will work on MHs, but our pricing has weeded those customers out for the most part. You can work 8 hours for a $100, or 1 hour.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I admire you wanting to fix things correctly and I should not "rain on your parade".
I just fear you are fighting an uphill battle. The mobile homeowners often can not afford to have any work done beyond fixing the immediate problems, mobile home park owners are hard pressed to spend a $ unless forced to do so, most POCOs are not too interested if its not smoking ,and the electricians have learned long ago as potonsparkey noted.. "you can spend 8 hours for $100"
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Are you indicating the service was part of the reason for the fire? Is there an issue with voltage fluxuation? While the ped has issues most were due to time & use. I see a GE breaker in a Bryant enclosure would have to look it up for compatability. Service connections aged, EC should be attached to grd buss, no comment on wire sizing not enough info. I would not doubt if this is in a mobile home park all peds are alike so getting the AHJ to disclaimer one would disclaimer all. The code cycle it was inspected to may have some bearing. One of the most difficult decisions in the trade is when to say enough is enough.
 

scook56

Member
Location
Allentown, PA
FIDO

FIDO

Good Luck !
Around here that would be customer owned equipment and POCO would have little to do with it other than disconnecting the conductors at the service point if you need them to.
Finding someone willing to pay you to repair/replace the equipment would be the next hurdle.
Your best hope will be the inspector providing documentation requiring repairs, replacement , proper grounding.
Often those situation are addressed locally using the FIDO approach. (******, drive off)

That is the funniest acronym, ever. Thx
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Well, I don't believe myself, but tomorrow I am meeting at the site POCO and MH inspector. Will see what happens. I hope FIDO won't be there.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Ok, this is interesting: Meet with POCO and they don?t care about that connections/pedestal because those are owned by the park and POCO only remove/install the meter ? Meet with the utilities locator and they don?t mark RV Parks ? Meet park owner and he will not spend money hiring private utilities locator ?

Meet with inspector and he required another rod that it is fine with me, SO I will risk and drive the rod hoping I don?t hit any of the utilities and If you don?t hear from me, then I was blow away with the rod, so I will be FIDO as augie47 aphorism ? I am going to install solid 4 AWG from the disconnect area (photo 1827) to the existing rod (photo 1828 - POCO said that it is a 8? one), so I will deeper it down leaving the existing connection from the service (photo center in 1824) and add the new solid 4 AWG to it (no in the 1824) and continue to the other new rod ? Suggestions? Meet with Factory assembled Structures inspector and he agreed on my suggested repairs as: maintaining the same aluminum wiring using new AL/CU devises, some alteration aluminum to copper for water heater, furnace and range; tailing with copper some conductors as: GFIC installations, burned out aluminum conductors ends, etc. He asked for Ark faults breakers but I discouraged him in doing that as it can be more problems for this MH ? Suggestions? ? I will replace (photo 1826 - mwm1752 noticed it) the GE 125 breaker (feeder) in the pedestal for a Bryant or Murray 100 amps breaker, see photo, any suggestion? ? Photos 1821 & 1822 show diagrams ? Suggestions?

See? When you are not a native, the English explanations go on and on as a love novel! LOL
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I realize I have already rained on your parade enough but, when this is all over, unless your mobile home park is the exception to the rule, you take a close look at the time involved and most likely you will have almost made minimum wage.
That is why as you were taking a huge risk driving the extra ground rod you saw all the other electricians vans driving pass that MH park and wave. :).
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
The pictures appear to show a broken grounded conductor buss bar -- yes / no? The broken buss bar might be reason for swapping out the damaged piece of electrical equipment with a new ped.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Sorry but I need to explain something. I explained in a previous post that I am working ?in trial period? for this organization that provide repairs for low/nothing income for senior. I am the only licensee there, holding electrical and plumbing licensees, I retired 3/4 years ago but been in my wife?s nervous I dis-retire and started there as a trial basis, but I don?t think I will continue there after those 2 MHs that I plan to repair. The wages are about $25.00 and I donate a lot of the materials, as you see I am doing those as almost a charity, but I am finding out that it would haunt me, I am working with my bonds, my insurance, my trucks and my tools, so you know that $25 does not cover even open my eyes. But I really feel sad for those senior that have nothing and I see this as donation.
This is why I am using 4 AWG for the rods as I have a full 250? spool of ..., I have 3 dozens of AL/CU switches/receptacles in stock and rolls of wiring. I have replacing a lot of Federal Pacific/Zinsco breakers for uses ones as I have in stock when I replaced those panels in the past.

But, this forum is my mentor, never had one and the information/education you provide is priceless AND I really take in consideration your advices and suggestions, especially now that I am 72 and my mind doesn?t Fifa las Fefas del Fufo (I got you) and that extra knowledge you provided call my attention of walking away from this. I will finish those 2 MH as I remove the occupants from them because of the danger, but they need their houses and after that I will FIDO.

Also, something wonderful is that inspectors from 3 entities let me go with the minimum as they understand the poor situation of those seniors, but it can also backfire at me, and this is why I will let it go after those MHs.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I commend you for wanting to help in what is often a hopeless situation.

Ninguna buena acci?n queda impune
 
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