Aluminum to Aluminum ASAP please ...

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Esthy

Senior Member
I recall using in the past ? long time ago ? twist screw connectors that were good for both Aluminum to Aluminum and for copper to copper.

I was at two supply houses and they never hear of that and suggested using the purple ones (Ideal 65). I told them that those connectors cannot be use on Aluminum to Aluminum as the manufacturer suggested. I know I can use AlumiConn but those are expensive and looking at the instructions on the regular twist connectors packages they are only for copper to copper.

BUT I think I can use those regulars for AL to AL, I see them all the time in those situations.

Can I use them? Any suggestions?
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Yes, there were purple wire nuts that had anti-oxide inside them. Haven't seen them in a while though. FWIW, and I can't say this with authority, I don't believe twisting and wire nutting is an acceptable splicing method for aluminum wiring (#'s 14, 12 & 10). There's a company on-line that rents a crimping tool and sells the crimps if you plan on doing a lot of this work.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The Ideal Purple Twisters are still available. They are not listed for connecting only AL wire, you must have at least 1 copper wire. 2 AL with 1 CU or 1 AL with 1 CU.

King makes AlumiConn connectors in 2 and 3 port versions. They can be used to connect 2 AL wires since each wire is in a separate port.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Yes, I carry in stock the purple ones and AlumiConn, but I used, long time ago, regular connectors that were approved to use with aluminum to aluminum. Here some photos of existing situation in a 28 years mobile home with aluminum wiring, as you can see, they are standard connectors. BTY, I don't see any problems in using those connectors with AL-AL.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Yes, I carry in stock the purple ones and AlumiConn, but I used, long time ago, regular connectors that were approved to use with aluminum to aluminum. Here some photos of existing situation in a 28 years mobile home with aluminum wiring, as you can see, they are standard connectors. BTY, I don't see any problems in using those connectors with AL-AL.


Years ago Bucannan wirenuts were listed for aluminum wire but they lost the listing. The purple are listed for aluminum to copper so put 2 aluminum wires together and pigtail a piece of copper. Either cap it off or use it
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
You are telling us that the Purple Ideal Twister are only rated if you have a Aluminum wire and a Copper wire. You cannot splice two AL #10 together you MUST add the 3rd wire and be copper.

That is crazy. Stuff gone too far.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I used, long time ago, regular connectors that were approved to use with aluminum to aluminum. Here some photos of existing situation in a 28 years mobile home with aluminum wiring, as you can see, they are standard connectors.

Years ago Bucannan wirenuts were listed for aluminum wire but they lost the listing.
Around 1989, the UL standards that wirenuts had to meet were quietly upgraded. The tests that a wirenut had to pass to splice Al and AL/CU became much harder. All wirenut manufacturers, at that time, had standard wirenuts that were good for AL/CU splicing by the OLD UL standard. Instead of improving their wirenuts, manufacturers quietly removed the AL/CU marking and instructions from their product. At that time, around 1989, the only thing left was the CopAlum Safety Connector or AL/CU split bolts. All those old "standard" wirenuts, to this day, remain good for CU only.


The purple are listed for aluminum to copper so put 2 aluminum wires together and pigtail a piece of copper. Either cap it off or use it
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Very smart, common sense suggestion. I like it!
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
You are telling us that the Purple Ideal Twister are only rated if you have a Aluminum wire and a Copper wire. You cannot splice two AL #10 together you MUST add the 3rd wire and be copper.
The Purple Twister instructions have always said this, since it first came out. The Purple Twister is approved for copper to aluminum ONLY.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
The Purple Twister instructions have always said this, since it first came out. The Purple Twister is approved for copper to aluminum ONLY.

I understand what the instructions say that. However what does the single copper conductor add to the equation other than volume?
If actually nothing than as I said another instance of CODE GONE WILD.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
. . .what does the single copper conductor add to the equation other than volume?
The only thing that applies from the NEC is 110.3(B). Hardly out of control Code.

The reason Ideal Industries made the Purple Twister with its instructions is all on them.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
I understand what the instructions say that. However what does the single copper conductor add to the equation other than volume?
If actually nothing than as I said another instance of CODE GONE WILD.

The only thing that applies from the NEC is 110.3(B). Hardly out of control Code.

The reason Ideal Industries made the Purple Twister with its instructions is all on them.

I understand I get it but I still think CODE GONE WILD. There is a reason it is only listed as such and I am sure has something to do with the code.
My Opinion and Gripe. .. Rant too!
 

Esthy

Senior Member
I "think" I remember now, there were vinyl/plastic twist connector with stainless steel inserts. They were used in wine/liquor cellars in southamerica in the sixties. Some wiring were in Pyrotenax and others in aluminum using those connectors ... Okay, I am too old, but I think I saw them in 1961.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I apprenticed installing Holub Industry's hard shelled wirenuts. They were just a conical coil spring inside a hard shell.

Then, a few years later, I was introduced to the 3M wirenut. Y, R, G and B. Kind of a soft outer plastic covering over a steel cylinder. They had a conical coil spring that had space to expand as they were tightened over the conductors. I know for a fact that these 3M wirenuts were listed until the late Eighties for splicing Al and Cu. It was called to my attention in the early Nineties that they no longer had the AL/CU stamp, and, to my surprise, none of my stock did, except for an old box of Greys (a size I rarely use.)
 

Esthy

Senior Member
Ah, I found in my pandora box one of the aluminum to aluminum crimp connector, this is for the grounds, but similar product/material with plastic/Bakelite was use for the ungrounded ones.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Ah, I found in my pandora box one of the aluminum to aluminum crimp connector, this is for the grounds, but similar product/material with plastic/Bakelite was use for the ungrounded ones.

Wow. Now there's a product. Bet the story behind it is interesting.

Looks like the coiled spring out of a wirenut with a twisting lever, not a crimp on connector.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
There was a specific PN I had ordered that was in the catalog but was on what AB called "production hold" (I think that was what they called it), so I had to change to something else.

The AB product manager came to visit one day a long while ago so I asked him about it. Turns out the production hold was due to some obscure change in the UL listing standards for that product that only applied to a few part numbers. I think they just removed them from the catalog eventually. I don't think they ever came off "production hold" status.

I had a similar thing happen with me with some Siemens MCCB I ordered a few years ago. I don't recall the exact situation but certain sizes of a certain frame size MCCB became unavailable. They used to range from 15A to 150A (I think) for that frame size, but nothing under 50 or 60A was actually being made. I don't know what ever became of that. I switched to EG frame MCCB and much prefer them.

My first clue there was an issue with the Siemens breakers was when the distributor could not get a delivery date from Siemens. It took me over a week of talking to various people to realize there was zero chance of getting them any time in the near future.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
It holds 4 or 5 ground conductors and the pigtail goes trough that little hole for the devise. It saves a lot of space, specially in the small boxes in mobile homes. I used to live in the fifties/sixties in Mene-Grande, one of the oil American camps in Venezuela and most of the manufacture houses used aluminum wiring. I don't know why, but the same material were inside of the Bakelite nuts and after years of use, the wires looked clean.
 

Esthy

Senior Member
My apologies to bring this back, but I still insist that there is no need for those special aluminum to aluminum and aluminum to copper connectors UNLESS the manufacturer, for their own benefits and their Jumbo Mumbo to rip-off the consumers, eliminated the "right material" inside the new twister connectors.
See the photos, blue and yellow connector with the insides removed and see the impeccable condition of the twisted aluminum to copper conductors. The blue was attached to several J-boxes containing the ALL aluminum conductors and are in impeccable condition as well (pardon my non-native expressions) AND the electrical wiring in this all aluminum mobile home is from 1968 or 47 years old. I FEEL GUILTY, As I starting repairing this wirings and replacing those fabulous connectors for the AlumiConn ones (inspector requirements), it was an unnecessary waste of money for those new AlumiConn and the time invested as I need to use different torques AND the space that take replacing 1 blue connector for 2 AlumiConn in the case of more than 3 connections. BTY, I think most of the failures on those aluminum conductors are no using the proper torque.
Ah, here is my torque tool for those AlumiConn, is there a better tool? AND finally, are those connectors still in the market?
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
AND finally, are those connectors still in the market?

The yellow and blue wirenuts shown in your photos are the old style 3M Y and 3M B. I liked those wirenuts, too. They were listed to splice Al/Cu, but 3M ("3M" stands for Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing) quietly removed the "Al" from the marking and instructions in the very late 1980s when UL toughened up the standards that a wirenut had to pass in order to be labeled Al/Cu.

Those 3M wirenuts are still available ( 3M Y, 3M R, 3M G and 3M B ) but they haven't been listed to do what you show in your photos for a Quarter Century.
 
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